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Burnley vs. Wolverhampton Wanderers

Turf Moor

Saturday 13th March 2010

3pm

Burnley have to be more Hungry than the Wolves

The Clarets are beginning to run out of games and we need to start winning if we are going to survive our first season in the top flight for 33 years. 'The Final Countdown` is now down to nine matches starting with a crucial six-pointer against Wolves at home this Saturday. It is so tight down there, with Wolves, Burnley and Hull all on 24 points separated by just goal difference with Pompey propping up the league and almost certainly down following administration and a nine-point deduction about to be implemented.

Although we have played a game more than both Wolves and Hull, a victory on Saturday would see us climb out of the relegation zone and be in high spirits for our next crucial game away to Wigan. This match is going to be a nervous game for Clarets fans, players and manager alike but it should also be the same for Wolves and we have to make our home advantage count or it could be curtains and back to supping Coca Cola. Wolves have just one win in ten league games and although better than our record of zilch have won just two games on the road all season.

We will all still have to dig deep though and we certainly can`t afford the nervous first half display we put in against Stoke City in midweek! The fans have to shout from the rafters and urge them on, we simply have to get three points and no other result is worth thinking about. Up the Clarets!

Predicted Team Sheet

News is still awaited on whether Steven Fletcher will be fit enough to play with a broken bone in his hand. He looks set to have another late fitness test having failed the one against Stoke in midweek. Our leading goal-scorer with nine league goals this season has now been sidelined for the last two games but the question is with both Paterson and Nugent on form, would he walk automatically into the starting eleven even if he was fit? One option might be to include all three with Paterson playing out wide not unlike the tactics against Stoke on Wednesday night with Thompson playing alongside Paterson and Nugent.

Laws might also be tempted to start McDonald ahead of loan midfielder, Jack Cork. Cork looked out of sorts on Wednesday night and McDonald invigorated the team after coming on for the whole of the second half. Another dilemma for Laws could be Fox who was woeful in defence at left back against Stoke City and to be honest has not been that impressive in the last few games. Jordan replaced him after 77 minutes on Wednesday night and could be favourite to start against Wolves.

I think this team would be potentially the best one we could put out taking into account our performance in the second-half against Stoke and ignoring completely the dire first half.

Jensen, Mears, Carlisle, Cort, Jordan, Alexander, McDonald, Eagles, Paterson, Nugent, Thompson (or Fletcher if fit)

Subs: Weaver, Duff, Jordan, Cork, Bikey, Blake, Elliott

Burnley Team News:

Both Chris McCann (knee) and Steven Caldwell (persistent groin injury) are still believed to be sidelined and Brian Laws will give Steven Fletcher a late fitness test (broken hand)

Player to watch: David Nugent

Nugent seems to be finding his goal-scoring touch again and has now scored six goals this season including one in each of his last two games. We need more of the same against Wolves this Saturday.

Wolverhampton Wanderers Team News:

Wolves have no new injury concerns and look set to field the same team for the fifth game running.

Striker Stefan Maierhofer though has recovered from an ankle injury and could be named among the substitutes.

Edwards (ankle) and Kightly (ankle/knee) remain sidelined.

Player to watch: Kevin Doyle

Wolves have the lowest number of goals scored in the Premier League this season with just 21 in the bag, eleven of those on the road. They have not scored now in three games but their leading goal scorer 26 year old, Republic of Ireland international striker, Kevin Doyle remains their chief threat. The former Reading star joined Wolves from the Royals for an undisclosed fee, reported to be a club record £6.5 million, in a four-year deal in June 2009. The prolific goal scorer has been relatively subdued this season but still has six league goals to his name, one of which he scored against the Clarets in our 2-0 defeat at Molineux earlier in the season

Back to the Future

Wolves and Burnley were of course both promoted together last season and now both are struggling to survive the drop.

The bragging rights so far this season belong to Wolves after our 2-0 defeat at Molineux on a cold, snowy day back in December last year. The match was somewhat controversial with Mick McCarthy having rested virtually the whole of his first team in a game they 'chucked-in` against Manchester United at Old Trafford a few days before they played the Clarets. We were not particularly impressive that day in all honesty but McCarthy`s actions seemed at the time to be vindicated after his fully refreshed first team squared up to a nervous-looking, error prone Clarets and got the precious three points. McCarthy was not smiling too much though after later picking up a £25,000 suspended fine clearly proving that what he had done was against the rules and against fair-play. He has not done it since, nor dare he!

The last time we played Wolves at Turf Moor was last season when we got a well-earned 1-0 victory in February last year. Those three points against a club high-flying at the top of the Championship but in poor form at the time put us well on the way to eventually qualifying for a play-offs spot. Chris McCann scored our goal in the sixth minute after rising to meet Wade Elliott's cross to head home from close range.

Before this season, the last time these two clubs met in the top flight was in 1975-76. This was the season of course that we were relegated, never to return for another 33 years. We will also want to forget our clashes against the men in Old Gold that season too! We got thumped 5-1 at Turf Moor in November 1975 with Hankin getting our solitary goal. Wolves had scored in the first minute and were 3-0 up before we scored after 48 minutes. It didn`t get much better at Molineux, this time under new manager, Joe Brown who had replaced Jimmy Adamson. We lost 3-2 in February 1976. Fletcher and Hankin (again) got on the score sheet. In a remarkable co-incidence both teams were relegated that season with Wolves third from bottom one place and two points above the Clarets.

Both clubs we will be hoping there is no repeat of that this season.

Ref Watch:

The scheduled referee for this game is Kent referee, Steve Bennett. He was appointed to the FIFA International Referees list in 2001 and has been in charge of two league games featuring the Clarets this season. The first was the opening game of the season at the Britannia against Stoke City and the second was in fact our last game in which we won a match against West Ham at home last month. Hopefully that will be a good omen although place your bets that they will change the referee again in what is now becoming a pretty regular event for our games.

Match Prediction:

The squeaky-bumometer will be in full flow on Saturday with a green gas cloud emanating from all four sides of the ground. We simply have to win, but I find myself saying that for all games now! How about 2-1 Clarets?

Next Match

We are running out of games in which to win our first away win of the season. Just four now left in which to consign this horrible statistic to the dustbin. Our best chance could come on Saturday 20th March when we travel to the DW Stadium to play struggling Wigan (Kick-Off 3pm). It goes without saying, three points here against a fellow relegation -threatened team could be just the tonic we need in our efforts to avoid the drop! All we have to do is play better than Liverpool did recently here and the points could be ours!




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The Journalist

Writer: turfmanphil Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Friday March 12 2010

Time: 12:52PM

Your Comments

I remember saying for the Stoke game,just flipping get three points Burnley,nowt else to say really is there? We didn't so the echo has come back with even more urgency now!!!!
turfmanphil
Here we go for another marathon round journey. I haven't seen them loose at Turf Moor yet, always won so let that continue Saturday as I'm sure it will.
WelshClaret
I hope you are right,Wolves apart from last season at home,have been a right bogey team in recent seasons both home and away. It's time to win and win convincingly but Ill take a 1-0 in the last minute with a huge deflection off Berra's backside! Owt to get three points
turfmanphil
Hope laws plays McDonald and cork in midfield and I'd like to Bikey back in the defence.
Fedupclaret
It will be interesting to see what Laws does with Cork. He didn't have a particularly good game against Stoke but then he had a brilliant one against Villa and was dropped! Carlisle had a stinker against Pompey and retained his place. Logic is not a word you can apply that easily to Laws sometimes. I agree if Bikey plays he is more suited to back four but I can't see him ousting Carlisle & Cort
turfmanphil
Welshclaret - I had the same record travelling up from South Wales - all wins until the Stoke match - only 4 matches so far this season though due to length of the trip and committments. Anyway, here's hoping you keep your record going. I'd also like to see Bikey in defence Fedupclaret and wouldn't mind seeing Edgar alongside him - I think they are more of the footballing type centre backs. It showed in the first half against Stoke that Cort and Carlisle struggle to get the passing game going from the back and I think that stops us getting our passing game going altogether - with the midfield not getting good possession from the back. Anyway, let's hope we continue from the second half performance against Stoke and go for it. I tought Nugent and Patterson were excellent. Come on the Clarets.
swalesclaret
Bikey returns to Clarets line-up while Kevin McDonald,Jack Cork and Steven Fletcher fail to make it with injuries, Wade Elliott returns in midfield with Steven Thompson dropping to the bench. Line-ups:Burnley: Jensen, Mears, Fox, Carlisle, Cort, Alexander, Bikey, Eagles, Nugent, Elliott , Paterson. Subs: Duff, Blake, Thompson, Jordan, Edgar, Rodriguez, Weaver Wolves: Hahnemann, Zuba, Craddock, Bera, Ward, Foley, Jones, Henry, Jarvis, Guedioura, Doyle. Subs: Elokibi, Ebanks-Blake, Keogh, Vokes, Milijas, Mancienne, Hennessey.
8clarets8
Mears mistake Wolves score Burnley 0-1 Wolves
8clarets8
Fox off Jordan on
8clarets8
This has got to be far and away the worst game of 'Premier League' football I have ever seen. What a shambles. For god's sake bring on BLAKE!!!
ozjean
Half-time Burnley 0-1 Wolves, I would love to be a fly on the wall in the dressing room!!
8clarets8
Love getting up at 2am to watch this. At least it will be a bit earlier when I move west OJ.
AussieClaret
Half-time scores: Birmingham 1-2 Everton Bolton 1-0 Wigan Chelsea 1-1 West ham Stoke 0-0 Villa
8clarets8
Second-half Wolves score from the start, huge deflection of Carlisle!! Burnley 0-2 Wolves
8clarets8
Yet another deflected goal. 2-0. We are stuffed. Burnley are awful against another awful side.
ozjean
Thompson scores Burnley 1-2 Wolves Come on now the Clarets!!!
8clarets8
Full-time Burnley 1-2 Wolves, Mr Laws said must win well we lost you took off our best player (Eagles) the crowd turned against you!! say's it all
8clarets8
Well at least we don't have to worry now, we are definitely relegated. I don't want to be negative but I don't think Laws has a clue what he's doing. Robbie comes on and hits the post and causes all sorts of problems yet he can't even get a start in front of Elliott who has been poor for weeks and Bikey similar. Then when he brings on Blake he takes off Eagles. There was no urgency, no tempo, no shape. At least when we lost before we often played good football now we are just s**te. What's worse is that Wolves were S**te too. Off to bed in a state of depression.
ozjean
The Problem is we are playing with a team full of championship players, with the exeption of Eagles, Cork, & Mears you cant blame the manager,althought in a way you can to some point. I would have chosen someone else. but we have to look forward not back I am a Football coach and you can not week after week expect championship players, good ones to win in the premiership with teams that have lets say one player worth more than the full burnley squad. I belive ite between Hul, wigan who are rubbish and wolves, ime not confident we can get enough points
Albmaleaf claret
LMAO!!!!! Another good win today for our lads. Solid in all areas. A game in hand on the claret and poo too! Forget being a fly on the wall in the Burnley changing room - you just wouldnt want to be a Burnley fan full stop! Championship fodder! Byeeeee! *Waves* <--- going down, going down, going down!
PremiershipWolf
If that comment from PremiershipWolf is typical of Wolves sportsmanship I hope they suffer relegation and administration sooner than later. OK we may, or probably, will go down but nobody can doubt our sportsmanship or wish to play good football.
cornwallclaret
Well Premiershipwolf we had 65% of possession we out played you yes we lost to you we lost to a load of tripe with 2 shots on target one deflected fluke and 1 uncharacteristic mistake by mears, yes we desrrve to go down on our form this season, but we played wedensday & always play a full team, and by the the way you played today you are going to get relegated as well. many blessings Albmaleaf claret
Albmaleaf claret
Good football with Brian Laws ROFL! For real? And 65% possession... WOW! I mean, thats AMAZING! I'd be happy with just the 3 points if i was myself! Or should i say 6 points of you lot this season...?! Think you'l find the Jarvis goal was a fantastic finish... Not gunna argue about it though lol - Mears = Fodder, Burnley = Doomed!
PremiershipWolf
Not going to comment best of luck possibly se you next season
Albmaleaf claret
Screw you PW. Anyway, stop acting as if it's all over, fellas. You still have 8 more games! 8-9 more points would be more than sufficient for survival!
JT_daniel
Eagles did nowt today and deservedly came off. Felt sorry for Laws as we self-destructed again. We are certainly written off now. Didn't think we did too badly today. A defensive howler and a wicked deflection the difference and event then we ought to have drawn. Sadly I do think our return of one point from the last 9 on offer will be what sends us down but we need to get behind the lads, the effort was good today.
cubanclaret
Trouble is cubanclaret we have been talking about 'cutting out defensive mistakes' for months now but still haven't learned the lesson. Don't think Laws is up to it myself and it's perfectly okay to criticise tactics. Blake is by far our most creative player and can cross the ball really well and beat players in tight situations (which is totally needed in the Prem) yet he can't get a start even when we are 'decimated' as Laws puts it and have all the incisiveness of a butter knife . Agree Eagles didn't do much but he did a lot more than Elliott and Patterson was not getting through today. Play Blake on the left and move Eagles across to the right and lets get some balls across to Nugent and Thompson. Blake made all the difference when he came on. We keep getting 'unlucky' deflected goals because we are STILL standing off the attack and giving them time and space to shoot at goal. If we pressed them further up the pitch a deflection would have no impact. That's why we keep suffering them but you notice they don't at our end because they don't give us the same freedom. PremierWolf, Wolves are by far the worst side I have seen in the Prem and whilst I agree that's not saying much for us, it's nothing to crow about for you either. I have always been impressed by the sportsmanship of other teams supporters on this site. You have just shown that Wolves fans are pretty pathetic. I expect you lot to be relegated with us as Hull play much better football than Wolves.
ozjean
AussieClaret, unfortunately the games are still sh*** three hours earlier! By the time we cool off and get to bed it's usually 2.30am anyway. Also midweek games kick off at 4am which isn't good. Our phone number here is 9450 6254. Give us a call when you get to WA. We live in Como. Up the Clarets!
ozjean
Thanks for that OJ, will give you a buzz when I get there in mid April, have been looking at places around South Perth or Como to live actually. It can be a small, small world at times. My name is Matt by the way. Lets hang in there, surely some luck will come our way soon!!!!
AussieClaret
Interesting theory ozjean about why we have suffered what seems like a high number of deflected goals. AT the other end, ClaretsPlayer said yesterday we have hit the woodwork more than any other PL team. Any explanations of that would be welcome too. As to why Blake doesn't start, isn't it to do with him getting on a bit, and the usually limited extent of his defensive contribution?
Couch Potato
Absolutely love reading the Vital Burnley message board! Your all amazing seriously! Like, I love how you say wolves are by far the worst team in the premiership but we've beaten you home and away, as well as home and away against spurs, are currently 3 points ahead of you with a game in hand (against west ham. Burnley , Hull and Pompey are down - get over it! Maybe next season you can get some away wins under your belt, and at least your championship defence will be where it belongs - along with your championship manager! We are premier league, say we are premier league! P.s. No more talk about who's better between wolves and burnley - proof is in the pudding Migos! xx
PremiershipWolf
Phil McNulty's blog on the beebwww is worth reading.
Couch Potato
Premiershipwolf i will give you my number and website, then when you need, some ones shoulder to cry on in the next couple of weeks when you lose all your next five games and find you are next from bottom, And yes we may be with you but the difference is we will have a club that if we do go into the championship we will have money to spend with no debt. website www.albmaleaf.co.uk
Albmaleaf claret
I am afraid that result was a joke but a predictable one. We have just been beaten by one of the worst sides ever to visit the Turf this season but when you have a Board,manager and players out of their depth, the sooner we can return to the Championship the better. This is just embarrassing now. I never want to return to this league again until we have the right mentality to try and stay up in it and put the resources behind trying to. If Wolves go down, they may have more debts than us but they will still be better placed to come back up just you see and I suspect they will stay up anyway. They would get over £7 million for Doyle alone. I never thought I would start to agree with the gloating from PW but actually we deserve it. We are a joke and a laughing stock and no amount of trying to look for positives will convince me otherwise. There was subdued silence on the Turf but the mutterings under the breath aimed at the Board and Laws were clear to all yesterday and I heard even more verbal attacks going back to the car. The Board should be ashamed of themselves bringing Laws to this club, I feel sorry for the bloke, he has no track record in the top flight and is clueless what to do, but that was plain to everyone before he even came except of course for this penny pinching club of ours. Yes, I know we are not down yet and I hope this post comes back to haunt me and we stay up but come on we are simply atrocious at the moment with confidence rock bottom
turfmanphil
Phil - you have worked very hard on this site to get hits up and should be praised as you have done an excellent job in my opinion. But you need to stop banging on about the 'mistakes' you feel the club/board/management have made this season or you may find that the hits begin to decrease simply because people are fed up of reading it. We know what your opinion is, but we dont need to read about it every time we come online!
Claretdale
That's me told then!
turfmanphil
It was meant as constructive criticism Phil ( if thats not how it came across) - its only my opinion and may not reflect the views of others.
Claretdale
This is the dilemma, Clarets Mad thrive on contention and drum banging and look at their hits. I am one drum against a load of other little drummers on here banging the opposite little comfy positivity posts when I am angry and frustrated by what is happening to my club. I want to hit something, I want someone to do something and I am sick to the hind teeth of nobody giving a damn thinking everything will be wonderful returning to the Fizzy Pop league! The strange thing is the majority of folk in the pubs and on the Turf itself I speak to are now beginning to think the same thing and are also now verbally saying it too after being frightened previously to dare question the notion that Kilby might just have got this wrong in so many ways
turfmanphil
Phil you are turning into the Burnley football clubs biggest critic, we all know we were the better team yesterday the stats prove that. Individual mistakes school boy defending again . but we hit the bar we hit the post should of had a penalty, lots more shots on target than a very poor Wolves side. I'm gutted that result really hurts. But I am not going to resort to below the belt severe criticism the boo boys were wrong when the substitutions were made Thomson scored Robbie hit the post eagles was not having the best of games anyway was he. Yes Wolves have the debts you wanted us to have and so do Hull but they are both worse teams than us.
Grimsby Claret
Wo wo wo - what the hell has just happened? Don't get me wrong , I like laughing at you lot - but what are you playing at talking to phil like that? He is completely right!? I mean , wolves aren't good enough for the premier league - no way - like you we do try hard and most games we come away saying we deserved something from it - but the difference is - we managed to scrap out the 3 points yesterday - and for some parts of the game - completely outplayed you... You were always going to batter us for parts of the game as you were behind and at home where you are good...! Going back to what I was saying - leave phil alone - when I'm peed off - I say something - paying £550 a year for my season ticket and going to half of the away games (as a student it's hard for funds!) I earn the right to have a go! He does too! Please remember everyone is entitled to their own opinion... If you don't like it - say so - but don't criticise him about losing members to the site or whatever - that's plain disrespectful! One final point - are some of you clueless about football? Wolverhampton wanderers are one of the only clubs in the world who make a profit and have NO DEBT ! infact were about £20 million in the plus! We don't pay over the top wages, and our top earners earn about 25-30k ... We do have a wage cap! Picking up on what someone said earlier about K.Doyle - try £10 million plus now - he is single handedly keeping us up... I hope we come in for eagles in the summer...!
PremiershipWolf
I might be the biggest critic on here but I don't think I am alone in the wider Clarets world. My fear is if we dont suddenly start winning and beat Wigan and certainly Blackburn the crowd will turn on Laws bigtime. I dont think it's his fault, it's the Board's. He's in an impossible position, beat the drop or run the gauntlet like Cotterill all over again but without the consolidation seasons before hand. The problem is if we do go down, Laws will then be labelled as the failed manager at Shef Wed and unless we start winning in the Champs that will haunt him with the fans on his back reminding him. The Board should have realised the implications and they should have realised that fans would see through the hype of this appointment. By the way I will not be one booing Laws and never would do so nor the players but I can see others doing this very soon
turfmanphil
Who would you have liked the board to appoint? I myself would gave liked you to go for Paul Ince... I don't think Grayson would have done anything , and I've never thought Laws was the man to keep you up... I think when that man was appointed, your fans instantly made him a failure?! Saying this, I also don't think Coyle could have kept you up - he would just have shown, and made the players give, more passion..?!
PremiershipWolf
Well if we were going to bring in anybody from the Championship, then Sean O'Driscoll looked a better bet to me and it was supposed to be a two-horse race. S'O D though would have cost compensation money and we wouldn't want to go into debt would we! . It was said Laws came here because he was used to working with a smaller budget to bring in players (more ambition shown by the club), sadly even if that was the case, it wasn't helping him at Shef Wed was it? He didn't have much time in the Jan window but you have to question some of the ones he brought in. Nimani? Weaver? (Why FFS do we need 4 keepers on the books?) Fox was the great white hope at l/b he is no better than what we have so far. To be honest though I would have loved to have seen who else was on the short-list and how ambitious they really were. There would surely be quite a few out-of-work managers out there with experience of the Prem League who would have relished a job managing a Prem club until of course they realised what joke salary we were willing to pay
turfmanphil
By the way PW on your point about Coyle, I think he would have kept our home record going through passion alone and maintained the Fortress Turf Moor record. There is no Fortress anymore after defeats to Pompey and now Wolves. Although I hate saying it, I think Coyle would have kept us up by getting the points from our home games.There was a rumour I heard yesterday that Laws only got money to spend in the Jan window because of the Coyle compensation money and it could have been Coyle had been told he wouldn't get much in the Jan window so jumped ship. In a way, I cant blame him even though I still hate his guts for the timing of what he did [Edited by turfmanphil]
turfmanphil
Not meaning to sound too derogatary about your club, but realistically, you over achieved last season and weren't expected to be here... Saying that , you didn't see Coyle (your hero) leaving you... If you did manage to bring in the likes of mark Hughes or someone - and they couldn't save you - what would it have done for their careers.. I think that is something else that needs to be taken into account - who wanted to come with no time to bring in players and no money in the forseable future... It's a hard call... Laws was the cheap option, and being honest - wolves would have done that too I have no doubts...
PremiershipWolf
Steve Coppell would have been my choice but I am told you can't get him to come North of Watford.
turfmanphil
Very sensible post that PremWolf - Most of what you have said I agree with.
Claretdale
Sadly so do I,Dale and thats what is causing me so much anger as you know! I actually think the promotion came as a complete shock to the Board and they were totally unprepared to know what to do about it. You wont agree but I think it is their naivity that could see us back in the Fizzy Pop league
turfmanphil
Steve Coppell would have been a fantastic choice i agree. He did a great job at Reading, and if it wasn't for injuries - who knows - he could still have been a Premiership manager these days..?! I know i like to cause a little trouble here and there, but it is quite fun. I think its about time now that i gave you my honest opinions. a) I dont think Wolves are safe - far from it. I feel we are a good side on our day, and regardless of what some of you seem to think, we can play good football. You don't sit outside the bottom three for most of the season if you don't have something about you... True?! If we would have lost yesterday, i would have come on here and said your down, and we are down too... but i don't think thats the case for certain anymore. We do have quite a good run in now, playing the likes of Pompey, West Ham, Sunderland, Blackburn, Stoke etc, so if we can get 2-3 wins out of those 5 game we are in with a fighting chance of staying up. Like i said earlier, i think what also helps is that there are 3 teams worse than us in this league... Take Kevin Doyle away this season, and no doubt about it, we would be rock bottom, or near enough... b) Burnley are not down yet. You are halfway their, but don't give up. I would be resigned to relegation if i were you too, but sitting on the other side of the fence looking in, i still believe you've got time to rescue the season. Sunderland and Wigan are both also on poor runs of form. Wigan are very poor full stop so if you can get a win or 2 under your belt - who knows?!
PremiershipWolf
PW you mentioned a salary cap, what is that at Wolves do you know?
turfmanphil
I am not particularly disagreeing with that. Maybe they have been Naive, maybe they hadnt fully entertained the possibility of promotion - But continually going over it and having a negative attitude around I think is counter productive. These things cannot be changed now. The end of the season will be the time for reflection and analysis on how things could have been done better and what impact it may have had. For now, We have 8 games left, and if we want to stay in this league - We need all the positive attitude we can muster. I think its a long shot, but we may just be able to push them above the line.
Claretdale
I agree too. Fair play to Wolves as they are struggling too but have beaten us twice now and too many fans are saying if only this and if only that. Fact is our results haven't been good enough to stay up so far and show no sign of changing either. For the last couple of years we have probably been a Championship team playing slightly above ourselves because of the organisational ( Cotterill ) and motivational ( Coyle ) skills of our managers. There was no foundation laid for a promotion bid and our good run this time last year saw us up through the back door of the Play-Offs. That wasn't luck because the team did it on merit but I'm sure it took the board by surprise. I've no idea about the financial situation at the club but I bet promotion solved a few problems at the bank. Agree totally with PW - Laws was the cheapest option at the time as anyone with a bit of credibility turned the job down anyway because the structure wasn't in place for a sustained stay in the top flight. I've seen Burnley play in the Premier League and every other division and even been to non-league grounds watching The Clarets. Whatever league we're in next year I'll still try and get to as many games as possible. I suspect that some of the new fans from this year won't. Good riddance to them.
RickersTwickers
You call it being negative I call it constructive criticism and I think its important that the oppositie view is put across. The problem of doing so on forums is that you are trying to reach a wider audience all the time that varies as new folk come on board. The regulars WILL get fed up of reading the same thing, but I cant't really do anything about that other than keep silent on something I feel passionate about which would be like a pressure cooker effect
turfmanphil
Well said RT re fair weather fans, despite my discontent my season ticket is already on order for next season no matter what league we are in! I have to admit though in my moments of anger going back to the car after the Wolves fiasco, i was beginning to question my sanity
turfmanphil
Phil i'm not sure of the exact figure but from what they say in the local newspaper, the express and star, Doyle is quoted to be on around 30k a week as i have just read. Supposedly going to break it going to 35k a week if we managed to get Hunt in January, but that is only a rumour. Even so, most of our team are championship players trying to gain experience in the premiership, on pennies... Even if we do manage to stay up with season, and its a BIG IF, i can't see the salary cap being raised by more than 5k... I love my club for this reason, but it is also fairly annoying. From one side, it keeps finances in order so hopefully we never end up in the state Pompey are in, but it also stops us getting big names ( once again , excusing Doyle who how the hell we got him - who knows!? ). Wolves will always be like this, and it should make you proud to know that Burnley also keep morals at heart. We could all win the league with a billion£ debt e.g. Man U, but thats not the spirit of winning fairly. Even if you do go down, at least you know most of your players will still be with you - the same players that took you up... But thats not the case yet...
PremiershipWolf
Sorry, reading on a bit, it seems to be the general opinion that Doyle is only on 25k per week. How much is Nugent on do you know?!
PremiershipWolf
£25k sounds about right for Nugent too, I think I read somewhere we were paying half-his wages whilst on loan (£12.5k/wk) Our joke figure is £15k/week for all the players. I am told they are all on an incentive in their contracts to stay up because the club will be entitled to reduce that figure even more if we go down. Really motivational our club considering most of our key players will simply beggar off if we go down and go to more ambitious clubs like er..we ll anybody!!
turfmanphil
Well i would snap your hands off now if you offered me 15k per week! I do understand what you are saying, but i think thats a fair amount. Even though you are a Premiership team, your first season is always all about luck. You stay in the league, you up your wages. Like us, your club wanted to try and stay in the league with a similar team to last year (we still spent £20 million or something!). Come next season, you may see a change in attitude...
PremiershipWolf
Most people would see £15k/wk reasonable PW but when you are trying to attract players to give you some chance of you staying up, that wont attract the right players of the right quality when it's nowhere near the going rate. People know on here I was asking for about £10 million to be put towards two-three key quality players with some Prem experience in midfield. Yes that would mean some debt, but £10m is hardly going to have the receivers knocking at the door and even if we still went down, they are still assets we could sell on at a profit!
turfmanphil
Phil how many of our players would command a regular place in an average premiership team ? I Cant see many rushing to sign Mears for a start, and if we paid them all another 5 grand a week would they play any better?
Grimsby Claret
i am new to the site too over the last few weeks but i am certainly sick of tmp's constant whinges. Being editor of such sites brings responsibilty but spreading negativity just spreads through readers and onto the terraces and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. it didnt seem to matter how many people disagreed with tmp he wasnt going to stop
boltonclaret
We are Burnley not UTD, City, Chelsea,Liverpool, or Arsenal.
Grimsby Claret
I agree with you Phil - and thats the same feeling among Wolves fans. Putting £10 million on 2 players with Premiership experience is exactly what we needed, but we just couldnt attract them... Instead we got alot of average players in the likes of Surman, Meirhoffer etc. McCarthy did spend well in other areas though such as Doyle and Zubar, but there wasnt enough of these signings...
PremiershipWolf
None of them would GC. Mears not so long ago though was being touted as a future England right back and he wont stay if we go down. Coyle & Bolton if they stay up will probably be in for him and Coyle no doubt has eyes on others. The thing about the £15k cap GC is that it wont attract the players we need to stay up. You have an example from PW above. £7.5 million he cost I think and he's on £25-£30 k/wk. We could have had 2-3 key players on that had they been willing to break the salary cap
turfmanphil
Why are you lot getting on Phils back? What gives you the right to tell him what to say and not to say? He's an editor on this site through dedication and trust. Remember that. If you have a problem, either apply for a position to work alongside him, or nab off?! He is saying exactly the same things as i say about Wolves. It is all honest, and coming fromt the heart. He clearly will never change, and why should he?! If you don't agree - say so - but don't criticise his position on vital burnley...
PremiershipWolf
Don't read it then BC or would you rather me post under a pseudonym like another editor I know when he wants to criticise the club? With responsibility also comes honesty and it's not about being negative or positive it's about putting across your thoughts. Fans are adult enough to form their own mind about Laws and the Club after listening to all the arguments and actually seeing what happens on the pitch
turfmanphil
Doyle signed for £6.5 million. An absolute bargain! You have players like Eagles and Nugent, Mears and Alexander. If you were to sell them, youd have some $ to spend. The fact that you have them in your team is a huge positive. You really should see it like that. I think Eagles would get into our team, and Nugent. The other two not so sure, but still... You have what you have at the end of the day. It could be alot worse - remember Derby?!
PremiershipWolf
We all respect Phil boltonclaret he is a true Claret following Burnley is his passion, he spends a fortune supporting the club and is a great bloke I enjoy talking all things Burnley with phil the times we have had a drink together. I followed Phil from the Longside site because I was sick of the Longside posters witch hunt against Steve Cotterill. and there severe criticisem. We can all put our feelings over without fear of severe criticiam on this site lets hope we dont lose the friendly spirit on here, We all feel wounded at the moment. We remain friends and Clarets. PW. stop stirring things isant it time you went back to your own site.
Grimsby Claret
Well this has certainly been an interesting day PW after our past altercations!! lol ;-)
turfmanphil
i probably wont be reading it as it just makes you even more depressed than before you log on. i think you underestimate the effect of criticism on websites Even dobbo said how the players themselves read the stuff and can affect their play As editor tmp makes more posts than everyone else so a disproportionate amount of anti-directors, anti laws comments appear
boltonclaret
Ok then sorry Grimsby Claret - i wasn't stirring things and i am sorry you took it that way. I was just stating that it isnt for others to tell people what to say or not to say. Yep it sure has, but i think this time it is some part down too Potato head not being here... Maybe he will have something to say later on?!
PremiershipWolf
Keep posting on here boltonclaret we need the balanced views.
Grimsby Claret
Hey folks, haven't stopped working for about 2 weeks so I know I haven't posted in about 2 weeks. Yesterday was disappointing. I now think we will go down bar a miracle. However, even though I Laws wasn't my first choice and think we should have gone for someone else, I do feel for him. Really if were honest we all wanted Coyle to stay. If he had I think we would be at least 6 points better off, but any manager would have struggled after he left. I didn't agree with the booing yesterday, you don't do that you get behind the team. At the time I probably like every other fan was wondering, why leave Elliott on and take Eagles off. But to be fair, it did work. Blake got in crosses and we looked more dangerous. Laws post match confrence did make sense. Eagles does not cross the ball and is his own worst enemy. Overall we needed to win that game and stupid mistakes cost us again. However tomorrow I'm renewing my season ticket, Up the clarets.
skutter169
OK BC I will try & refrain now from referring to this again, but will just end by saying I would never be depressed as much by reading stuff as I have been by seeing the club in this situation after 33 years of trying to get back. I have been on both sides of the fence now and tried to defend Cotterill against viscious negativity something GC alludes to above. Brian Clough had a good expression for this situation when he said 'its only opinion'
turfmanphil
Thanks GC. Didnt mean to imply any criticism against tmp for the commitment he puts into the editor role--which is clear to see. I have met Phil and had a drink with him and he's a great guy. I just dont like the anti directors stuff when they are the best directors in the league
boltonclaret
Welcome back skutter! Boy have you some catching up to do!! lol ;-)
turfmanphil
I look at it like this BC. I think my Mum is the best Mum in the world but that doesn't mean I agree with everything she says!?? I think Kilby & Co have done a marvellous job over the last few seasons at the club and have given us a chance to have a pot at the Prem. I just don't think though they have been right in their approach to try & keep us up
turfmanphil
Hi skutter good to see you posting again. I feel sorry for Laws too. boltonclaret I would not swap Barry Kilby for any other Chairman he saved Burnley football club from death. I have wrote letters of concern to the directors and had written and signed replies which are kept with all my Programmes match tickets etc.
Grimsby Claret
I wouldn't change our chairmen at all. They have done a great job with a very small club. However we do seem to have waved the white flag a bit too early. It seemed when Coyle left we began planning for Championship. Just wish they would have gone for it a bit more.
skutter169
Absolutely brilliant goal from Man City then with regards to Wolves and Burnley!!! Sunderland just dropped 2 points in the last minute! Phew!
PremiershipWolf
Tis good news but the Clarets certainly have to start creating their own survival by winning. We can't rely on others losing, even more so now
turfmanphil
Phil you maybe right maybe they could of done more, but we will never know if that would of kept us up or not. I think Owen Coyle has done the damage as some posts have said we would of picked up more points at home if he had stayed loyal for the rest of the season
Grimsby Claret
We need, NEED, NEEEEEEDDDDDDD, NEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDD to Win at Wigan next week. Thats WIN, not draw and definatley not lose.
skutter169
tmp i am sure she is the best mum--or second best anyway but i bet she never goes into debt either. You say we can go into debt and sell off our players at a profit. you seem to forget that like cars football players are depreciating assets going down to zero bosman fashion at the end of their contracts. And they certainly depreciate quickly when they have been playing for a club that gets relegated and everyone knows you are forced to cash in those depreciated assets. If it was your own money you wouldnt be so quick to go into debt especially after youve already gambled heavily once and only just got away with it
boltonclaret
We all go into debt,its called a mortgage! In footy terms which club in the Prem is not in debt?But anyway on the players front you have one example above. Kevin Doyle £6.5 million, salary £25k/week and if Wolves go down he could fetch £10m thats in one season. Who do we sell? Thought you wanted me to stop banging this drum?? ;-)
turfmanphil
No question - Susan got us in this mess and no amount of buying/selling is going to solve the fundamental problems we are facing now. That ball is refusing to go in the net. Eagles is no longer delivering the ball up to the danger zone in the way that he did early in the season. The fans need to stay behind BL and if we take the drop - stay positive theres another chance at Wembley. BUT we aint gone yet and to stay in with a chance we stay behind the boys. REMEMBER we don't follow Burnley because we expect instant success - its the spirit of the club that makes them great.
AndyHo
I guess we all agree with Coyle being the one to get us in this mess, the talking point appears to be whether we think Laws is the one who can get us out of it and what his fate will be if he cant. We can get behind him but I know from reading other forums and some of the stuff on here that he is walking a tightrope with a large number of fans getting restless. The Rovers game could be a right test for him! I abhor booing of our own manager and players and always have but I am also a realist and know it will happen if we dont' start to win soon
turfmanphil
TMP as the saying goes I completely disagree with your point of view but will defend to the death your right to say it. Also Premier Wolf, your subsequent posts showed a depth of knowledge and common sense that your original one didn't! I was gutted by the Wolves result but as I have said before I never thought I'd see us in the Premier League and am determined to enjoy it and be proud of the club. Apart from the money in the Prem (and the fact I can watch Burnley live every game) the fact is that a 'sucessful season for us (and a lot of others) is not being relegated and that gets demoralising. The Championship is more honest and at least we go into the season with high hopes of promotion and winning a lot of games. I'm afraid I can't understand the mentality of fair weather fans - the highs are much sweeter after a lot of lows. I should say here that although I am obviously not a season ticket holder here in Australia I am a Foundation member and we spend thousands of dollars a year flying over for a few games so I think I'm qualified to comment!
ozjean
Ozjean - I do enjoy your posts and hope this site continues as somewhere everyone can have a say, and where we can disagree without getting abusive or overly personal about it. I hope we can all learn from each other... and share some lighter moments, as well as air our fears. The last is obviously hard when results aren't good, which makes it even more important. I also hope the site remains somewhere where we can stand up not just for our club and football, but also for football and our club being run in ways that set good examples in a wider world.
Couch Potato
I agree with JT Daniel- c'mon guys! You've got 8 games left. There is still time here to salvage the situation. BUT (and there's nothing like stating the bleedin' obvious!) you HAVE to win at Wigan I feel. With any luck we'll bash West Ham on Saturday too! Chins up Clarets!
julieloveshenry4ever
There is one simple answer to it all and it's in the Court of Laws! This is his chance to prove to everybody he can motivate these players to work miracles and he has just 8 games left to do it in! The biggest game will be against Blackburn, he would do himself a big favour if we won that one and it could give him the breathing space he needs to keep the fans (or rather some of the fans) off his back verbally at the games themselves. Lose against both Wigan and Blackburn, there will be no excuses that would placate enough of the fans and the last six games could be hell for him
turfmanphil
My 'Ticketless' piece in the new WTBM is based on a day I recently spent in Portsmouth. Amongst other things, it asks what it would feel like to be approaching death with bragging rights intact. If you want to know, indeed if it's the last thing you do, buy WTBM...
Couch Potato
Blimey it has been busy in here!!
8clarets8
Yeah, I know 8c8. I spent yesterday afternoon in the garden and look what happened while I was out! But I thought you were staging a 7-day sign in? Not sneaked out when you thought no-one was looking did you?
Couch Potato
I did attempt it CP but it was nigh on impossible with my missus, you only have to leave the room and something has been turned off, sigh!!
8clarets8
I was dreading reading the posts on here after this weekend, but itís good to see that as usual a lot of common sense prevails amongst the despair! The worst result that we could have had and now leaves us needing snookers, but yet again that element of luck was totally absent for us whereas they had more than enough. I felt sorry for Mearsí uncharacteristic schoolboy mistake and thought surely not the buffet defence (help yourself) yet again? Then the deflection off Carlisle and that seemed to sum up the whole despairing situation that we find ourselves in , with nothing going our way at all. Not to dwell too much on the luck aspect, but a little slice could have seen two different results this week . I really canít understand the booing though ,I understand the frustration, weíre all bloody frustrated, but surely people realise that itís making things worse and not better? Twice now Laws has made changes which improved the situation but unfortunately without the end product. I agree with the sentiment that it was Coyleís departure that has upset the applecart and Laws has picked up the poison chalice at the worst time possible. We often hear of people commenting on how difficult it is to break out of the bottom three once youíre there, and how things always seem to go against the bottom clubs and now I can believe it. Weíve got 8 games left and I hope Robbie gets a start in all of them , we need all the creativity that we can get . Itís not looking good but itís not over till itís over , and itís not over yet.
WelshClaret
The booing is a disgrace, I am not a particular fan of Laws at the moment but I am hoping he proves me wrong and I would never,ever boo at a game but with some I am afraid it is human nature. I hated it when Cotterill got it in the neck verbally during that 19 winless streak, but at least he was strong enough to turn things round and we survived the drop. There is only one way for Laws to silence the critics, win enough games and keep us up.
turfmanphil
I hope he proves you wrong as well ! He's a hell of a nice bloke and his positivity even puts some of us to shame . I hope for his sake and the team, and for all us fans as well, that we somehow manage to swap places with Wolves. Their run in doesn't look good and I didn't see anything that shouted survival in their team, but of course we need to win ourselves to overtake them. Could Wigan be the one I wonder? I'd like to see Roberto Martinez do well, but he can start after Saturday!
WelshClaret
I am sure Phil Brown is a nice guy as well. I wish we lived in more gentler times where managers got longer to prove their worth but footy is results orientated now and I have known managers be sacked for only winning one game in 22 matches. There is no secret to positivity you just put a different spin on things and pretend everything will be hunky dory. It's fine if it works but it haunts you forever if you're wrong. I have been on both sides of the fence now and I think folk confuse criticism too much with being negative, in some ways it's being more honest and a statement of how you are feeling at the time.
turfmanphil
Bloody hell Hull think they might get Alan Curbishley. He is their Number 1 target. If he comes to Hull that will be food for thought considering he is thought to not want to come North of Watford with that being one of the reported reasons as to why we did not go after him...although that probably had more to do with salary expectations!
turfmanphil
Do I get a prize for being the 100th poster in this thread? I would not want the idea that being critical is the same as being honest left unchallenged. For some people it might be, for others not. For example, I would be upset if anyone thought I had been dishonest on this thread (or on any others, except when I am being deliberately and overtly silly, in the attempt to raise a smile). So, for example, in all honesty to myself and everyone else, I was downhearted when we lost to Wolves, but at the final whistle honestly felt that my best interests were going to be served by making motivationally supportive comments of the Board, gaffer and team. Also that I was going to have a better week in a state of hope than in a state of fear. (That almost sounds religious, doesn't it?. But I am, by reasoning and instinct, an existentialist who has no faith in gods, not even Owen.) Others honestly feel differently, but then subsequently rationalise the need to avoid undermining their own team, and maybe get told to cheer up by, for example, their spouses, and honestly decide that doing as they are told is going to be in their best interests, if you know what I mean. Others feel honestly differently from me, and then decide (or act without thinking) that it's better to beat their team with an angry stick than to offer the carrot of praise. That's fine too, as long as it's not abusive, in which case I feel an honest duty to protect.
Couch Potato
101 I got the 100!! :-)
turfmanphil
Now I am honestly upset. You went off topic! But since you have, could you please remind me of Curbishley's record with relagation-doomed teams?
Couch Potato
This seems the most relevant.Curbishley returned to management in December 2006 when he was appointed as manager of West Ham United] After looking certain for relegation, Curbishley led West Ham to seven wins out of their last nine games, beating Blackburn, Everton, Bolton, Wigan, Arsenal, Middlesbrough and a last-day 1Ė0 win at Manchester United, to keep West Ham in the Premier League
turfmanphil
That of course was the Hammers of Tevez (and Mascherano?). Hull have Altidore, who looked half decent in the Confed Cup. What has he done since? Since this is a Wolves thread, can you clarify whether MU had a full strength team out that day final day?
Couch Potato
Taken a well-earned break by all accounts after resigning from West Ham in 2008. A bit of TV punditary along the way. His earlier career with Charlton speaks volumes as well. He took sole command from June 1995 and masterminded the revival of the club's fortunes with two promotions and consolidation into the Premier League.
turfmanphil
Many of us who post on here are old enough to remember us getting relegated from the top flight in the early seventies. Jimmy Adamson was the manager, and for the last third of the season the Longside gave him a load of stick With Adamson out chants as common as the ones in support of Judas coyle not that long ago. We were relegated but two years later Adamson was a hero. History could repeat itself with Laws.?
Grimsby Claret
Hull are denying the Cubishley link now , and they refused to confirm that Megson is on the shortlist. The plot thickens, I wonder if OC is on it?
WelshClaret
Curbs? The beeb doesn't seem to think so tonight. Any other cap'ns wanna step aboard the leeky Hull?
Couch Potato
Curbishley I mean !
WelshClaret
Well if this is true in the Daily Mail, it begs the question as to whether we even tried:Mark Hughes has already turned down the Hull City job but chairman Adam Pearson hopes a face-to-face meeting with the former Manchester City boss will persuade the Welshman to change his mind.
turfmanphil
Ian Dowie is now the front runner apparently?? Hughes would have been my choice for us apart from the obvious financial restrictions , although perhaps it could have been arranged on a promised survival payment. Anyway, come on Brian , we're still behind you and the lads.
WelshClaret
I reckon Hughes has his sights set on something more like Sunderland, Newcastle or West Ham... or bigger. And almost certainly doesn't need to rush. Going to Hull for 9 weeks would be a headache; and with more to lose on his CV than to gain. Personally I think someone like Andy Gray or Lawro or Garth Crooks should be told to go there and show us they not just all mouth! Okay, no, that would be a waste of time too!!!
Couch Potato
Think you're right CP. There's 'them that manage, and them that don't'. Or should I have said 'them that manage, and them who do punditry' ?
WelshClaret
 

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