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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

Stanislas Wings In as Elliott Sadly Wades Out!

It was a frustrating and in the end disappointing day for Clarets fans as this summer`s transfer window finally came to a close at 11pm last night. Eddie Howe had whetted the appetite of Clarets fans by suggesting that we could be bringing in 2-3 players to boost a somewhat depleted squad. We were already down to the bare bones having lost three key players to long-term injuries and having embarked on a summer clearout to reduce both the average age of the squad whilst at the same time getting rid of the high-salary earners. Three of our key players, Chris Eagles, Tyrone Mears and Danny Fox also additionally left Turf Moor to realise their ambitions elsewhere.

This left Eddie Howe saying earlier this week:

'We`re so thin on the ground body wise. Our squad (on Saturday) is what it is.

'Those are the 16 players who are fit, so we do need some new additions, we do need to add a little more depth.'

In answer to the question about bringing in some new faces before the window closes he said:

'Hopefully because we do need to add a couple.'

Unfortunately in the end we finished up worse off!

Nothing was happening on the Burnley transfer front in terms of announcements for most of the day and then finally in the late evening it was confirmed that we had signed one of our targets, 21 year old winger, Junior Stanislas from West Ham on a three-year deal. How much did we sign him for? Well, yes you guessed it! Another player arrives at Turf Moor for an undisclosed fee! Are they embarrassed or something? Are they scared we might do the maths and realise all the monies in for transfers out is far greater than the total for players in? Oh well, let`s be positive at least the exciting under England Under 21 international has arrived to become our 7th signing of the summer if you count the two loans and a third-string goalkeeper. He now joins his team mate from West Ham, Zavon Hines and there was some good news about Hines too yesterday. The two clubs have agreed a fee for the striker without having to go to a tribunal. So what was the fee? Yes, you have guessed it, undisclosed!!

Burnley fans at this stage following the good news about Stanislas were now hoping there would be some more last minute additions especially in defence. Ryan Shotton from Stoke had been a strong target according to reports and with Michael Duff facing 4-6 weeks off with a knee injury and both Clarke Carlisle and Leon Cort now out on season-long loans, it seemed crucial to bring in a central defender to boost the back four. In the end there was no movement at all and we can only surmise that the Shotton deal fell through probably because Stoke realised the long-throw expert was crucial to their plans with Delap now getting somewhat long in the tooth. Shotton had begun to make inroads into the Stoke first team recently both in the Premier League and Europa Cup. There is however still a chance in the loan market to do something about our dire situation in defence and there was some talk that West Brom former Rochdale defender, Craig Dawson could be a contingency option if we failed to sign Shotton.

With the clock ticking down, Burnley fans were also keeping a nervous eye on possible players leaving the club. It was a pretty nervous time for Clarets fans when Sky Sports had announced earlier in the day that Southampton were increasing their bid for Jay Rodriguez. 4.5 million had already been turned down by the club with a 'Not for Sale` sign slapped on the player although we all knew everybody including Jay Rod would have their price, particularly at Burnley! The question was would Southampton pay that price and would our clubs promotion chances take a severe nose dive? In the end, thankfully not with Rodriguez remaining a Clarets player at least until the January window opens in the New Year. It would appear that Southampton only made a derisory offer of 5 million with most fans believing a value of 6-8 million might have been enough for him to be sold; a sale which probably would have led to disgust and uproar at Turf Moor.

In typical true Burnley fashion though, the club still had to let us down when it was announced with minutes to go until the window closed that Wembley hero, Wade Elliott would be leaving Turf Moor after agreeing a two year deal with Birmingham. How much did we let him go for? Yep, you guessed it! Undisclosed! The 32 year old had seemed unhappy recently and over the weekend had been linked with a move to Nottingham Forest. The club in the form of media manager, Daz Bentley had apparently reassured fans via Twitter that there was no truth in the rumour and so it would prove. He simply signed for Birmingham instead. It is the end of an era. Wade had been six years at the club and of course will always be remembered for that winning Wembley goal; the one that saw the club promoted to the Premier League for the first time in its history! Of course, in isolation you could say, we had seen his best years but at 32, we have lost yet another experienced player and in effect have simply replaced one winger with another.

The only other transfer news regarding the Clarets related to a deal for 18 year old Burnley defender, Dean Overson. He moved to Bradford in a two year deal. Dean, son of Vince Overson who is in charge of our Centre of Excellence, had completed his two year scholarship last season but had been retained for further assessment following a lay-off with a broken ankle.

So that was it! Not the day I suspect most Clarets fans were hoping for and certainly one for me at least that was very, very disappointing. I just don`t understand what this club is trying to achieve but they have certainly achieved their target of reducing salaries and reducing the age of the squad. It was an average age of 24 when Brian Jensen returned in goal on Saturday. If you take the Beast and now Elliott out of the equation, we are even younger. But is that the right policy and do we now have enough experience, let alone enough players? We have to hope that Howe against all the odds can somehow get this team in the top six by Christmas but it doesn`t look like that will be easy to do especially if we suffer any more injuries or pick up suspensions.

Eddie Howe has also certainly virtually built his own team with all the players apart from Jensen now virtually younger than him! It remains a team in transition and one developing but I just fear this is the wrong time to be doing this and that we have the balance wrong. I think the bottom line taking away all the club hype and positive spin has been to do just one thing. Get the salaries down! I just hope that is not a big gamble and that we don`t struggle for survival this season. A demotion under our financial plight just isn`t worth thinking about. The Board in my opinion will now live or die on the decisions they have made this summer. I just hope they have this right, I really, really do!

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The Journalist

Writer: turfmanphil Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday September 1 2011

Time: 8:19AM

Your Comments

Not reet good was it? Loans now I guess with the back four currently depleted. There is certainly some anger on Twitter
turfmanphil
Not reet good was it? Loans now I guess with the back four currently depleted. There is certainly some anger on Twitter
turfmanphil
What percentage of Bfc fans Twitter, anyone know? Are Twitterers representative of Bfc fans as a whole? Are Twitterers perhaps more inclined to be angry than non-Twitterers? Are Twitterers perhaps just a minority who feel that by shouting things will change, while a majority are perhaps a bit calmer, accepting that they don't have all the facts? What actually does anyone learn by listening to Tweets? Absent answers to these and similar questions, I haven't got a clue. So I would certainly advise Bfc not to put that much emphasis on what they hear there. Anyway, I'm blue that Wade is, but I've spent a lot of time on VB the last two years sticking up for him when many others have been groaning at him. You don't know what you've got till it's gone? As for the forwards we seem to be stockpiling, I don't know enough about the new ones yet to tell what options they bring us. I guess Eddie's guarding against the worst in Pato's case, and maybe assuming one or two will be sold on for profit in 6 months or a years time. I was told last night that Barca recently beat Villareal 5-0 playing 9 midfielders, one defender and no front men. Which says nothing but that football is full of surprises. Let's see what if any loans happen and build on the work in progress at Pride Park.
Couch Potato
What percentage of Bfc fans Twitter, anyone know? Are Twitterers representative of Bfc fans as a whole? Are Twitterers perhaps more inclined to be angry than non-Twitterers? Are Twitterers perhaps just a minority who feel that by shouting things will change, while a majority are perhaps a bit calmer, accepting that they don't have all the facts? What actually does anyone learn by listening to Tweets? Absent answers to these and similar questions, I haven't got a clue. So I would certainly advise Bfc not to put that much emphasis on what they hear there. Anyway, I'm blue that Wade is, but I've spent a lot of time on VB the last two years sticking up for him when many others have been groaning at him. You don't know what you've got till it's gone? As for the forwards we seem to be stockpiling, I don't know enough about the new ones yet to tell what options they bring us. I guess Eddie's guarding against the worst in Pato's case, and maybe assuming one or two will be sold on for profit in 6 months or a years time. I was told last night that Barca recently beat Villareal 5-0 playing 9 midfielders, one defender and no front men. Which says nothing but that football is full of surprises. Let's see what if any loans happen and build on the work in progress at Pride Park.
Couch Potato
The Twitterers (or is it Tweeters) tend to be the same group consistently and use the same hashtags in the main! I have detected a trend from totally supporting everything the Board do to one of concern and in some cases anger! Some of the original blatant positives for want of a better expression now seem to have doubts at the very least but there is still a hardcore of fans willing to bide their time and see how things pan out. In some ways so am I and want us to be successful but all I can see is a uphill struggle now. Put it this way there is not much margin for error especially if injuries/ suspensions kick in plus we are working with a small, young,inexperienced squad which is expected to now gel whilst still being described as being in transition
turfmanphil
The Twitterers (or is it Tweeters) tend to be the same group consistently and use the same hashtags in the main! I have detected a trend from totally supporting everything the Board do to one of concern and in some cases anger! Some of the original blatant positives for want of a better expression now seem to have doubts at the very least but there is still a hardcore of fans willing to bide their time and see how things pan out. In some ways so am I and want us to be successful but all I can see is a uphill struggle now. Put it this way there is not much margin for error especially if injuries/ suspensions kick in plus we are working with a small, young,inexperienced squad which is expected to now gel whilst still being described as being in transition
turfmanphil
Sounds like squad psychology is much improved. If you compare where we are now with where we would have been if we'd lost at Wembley, we're a much sounder organisation. If you draw up lists of players we had at various points over the last 3 years, I find it very difficult to point to one list that was all that much better than any other. We had a brilliant time in the sun with a manager who rode his luck. But even in the good times he was sewing the seeds of a squad psychological meltdown that he eventually sent into a chasm. Then we had a manager who was both lucky and unlucky to have the job of dealing with that psychological problem, and who failed, despite bringing in a lot of players, and hanging on to everyone by Fletch. While in terms of money and players, if you make detailed comparisons between a number of points in time, I reckon the evidence is that we did go down stronger. But in terms of the organisation's psychology we were shot to pieces, and now at last we have a gaffer who seems to tick more of the right boxes than the other two in know-how and commitment to do something about that. Therefore, while sharing everyone's worries about lack of depth in defence and central midfield, I find plenty of reasons to talk about things at last moving in the right direction after 18 months of somewhat rudderless turmoil. Obviously fans don't pay for the right to practice being patient. But my money is on their mood following the upturn in the sqaud's outlook on life over the next few months.
Couch Potato
Sounds like squad psychology is much improved. If you compare where we are now with where we would have been if we'd lost at Wembley, we're a much sounder organisation. If you draw up lists of players we had at various points over the last 3 years, I find it very difficult to point to one list that was all that much better than any other. We had a brilliant time in the sun with a manager who rode his luck. But even in the good times he was sewing the seeds of a squad psychological meltdown that he eventually sent into a chasm. Then we had a manager who was both lucky and unlucky to have the job of dealing with that psychological problem, and who failed, despite bringing in a lot of players, and hanging on to everyone by Fletch. While in terms of money and players, if you make detailed comparisons between a number of points in time, I reckon the evidence is that we did go down stronger. But in terms of the organisation's psychology we were shot to pieces, and now at last we have a gaffer who seems to tick more of the right boxes than the other two in know-how and commitment to do something about that. Therefore, while sharing everyone's worries about lack of depth in defence and central midfield, I find plenty of reasons to talk about things at last moving in the right direction after 18 months of somewhat rudderless turmoil. Obviously fans don't pay for the right to practice being patient. But my money is on their mood following the upturn in the sqaud's outlook on life over the next few months.
Couch Potato
Its a strange one on the one hand i agree with getting rid of the ageing players and the way EH as gone about the task, on the other hand is it the board just trying to cut costs at the Club and hope the fans buy into it my heart says it EH but my head points to the board. Saying that this should have been done last season by BL but don't think he had the backbone or confidence to do it. Like you all say only time will tell if it was the right way forward.
Fedupclaret
Its a strange one on the one hand i agree with getting rid of the ageing players and the way EH as gone about the task, on the other hand is it the board just trying to cut costs at the Club and hope the fans buy into it my heart says it EH but my head points to the board. Saying that this should have been done last season by BL but don't think he had the backbone or confidence to do it. Like you all say only time will tell if it was the right way forward.
Fedupclaret
Its quite clear what they are doing! They are reducing the players salary budget and bugger the consequences! Thats what all this has been about with the rest a sideshow dressed up with positive spin. Eddie Howe has a lot to prove and if he fails I hope folk blame the Board and don't make him the scapegoat. He can only do so much with an effective squad size of 16 players, a lot of them young,unproven and inexperienced at this level and the season already underway and points being lost whilst the team gels!
turfmanphil
Its quite clear what they are doing! They are reducing the players salary budget and bugger the consequences! Thats what all this has been about with the rest a sideshow dressed up with positive spin. Eddie Howe has a lot to prove and if he fails I hope folk blame the Board and don't make him the scapegoat. He can only do so much with an effective squad size of 16 players, a lot of them young,unproven and inexperienced at this level and the season already underway and points being lost whilst the team gels!
turfmanphil
I don't agree that the Board have a bugger the consequences strategy or mindset. I think they care deeply. We can disagree with their strategies or decisions, but I cannot even remotely get my head round the idea that people who give of their time and money to the team of which they are fans don't care.
Couch Potato
I don't agree that the Board have a bugger the consequences strategy or mindset. I think they care deeply. We can disagree with their strategies or decisions, but I cannot even remotely get my head round the idea that people who give of their time and money to the team of which they are fans don't care.
Couch Potato
EH must take the majority of blame if it goes wrong imo. He picked Grant ahead of Beast, Duff ahead of Bikey and Edgar. Marney ahead of Wade, said yes to signing Ings and the West Ham forwards. If he was desperate for defenders why didn't he say enough forwards now....thankyou kind Board but could we buy a new defence! It is Howe that is playing 4 4 2 a system favoured by many on here that can leave you short on defenders when two of the midfield 4 are wingers. I tend to agree with Couch and wonder what other teams supporters thought when they lost players yesterday?
VinRogue
EH must take the majority of blame if it goes wrong imo. He picked Grant ahead of Beast, Duff ahead of Bikey and Edgar. Marney ahead of Wade, said yes to signing Ings and the West Ham forwards. If he was desperate for defenders why didn't he say enough forwards now....thankyou kind Board but could we buy a new defence! It is Howe that is playing 4 4 2 a system favoured by many on here that can leave you short on defenders when two of the midfield 4 are wingers. I tend to agree with Couch and wonder what other teams supporters thought when they lost players yesterday?
VinRogue
They care about budgets and not going into debt! Thats all they seem to care about, the rest on the pitch we have to make do with sticking plaster and blind faith. They are risking our future and our league status.Worse than that they have fed us positive spin from the time we were supposed to purchase Cork. All of it has come to nothing. A squad of 16 players with little experience? Come on! Howe at the start of the season, we just need 2-3 players and we will have the squad we need! Now he still wants 2-3 players having lost four key players (five if you count Cork from last season) who left through the club's lack of ambition. Not exactly building for the future with 4-6 loan players is it? [Edited by turfmanphil]
turfmanphil
They care about budgets and not going into debt! Thats all they seem to care about, the rest on the pitch we have to make do with sticking plaster and blind faith. They are risking our future and our league status.Worse than that they have fed us positive spin from the time we were supposed to purchase Cork. All of it has come to nothing. A squad of 16 players with little experience? Come on! Howe at the start of the season, we just need 2-3 players and we will have the squad we need! Now he still wants 2-3 players having lost four key players (five if you count Cork from last season) who left through the club's lack of ambition. Not exactly building for the future with 4-6 loan players is it? [Edited by turfmanphil]
turfmanphil
17 players not 16 tmp The 16 at Derby plus Stanislas and Bartley minus Elliott. Or are you excluding MacDonald?
boltonclaret
17 players not 16 tmp The 16 at Derby plus Stanislas and Bartley minus Elliott. Or are you excluding MacDonald?
boltonclaret
16 or 17 it's the same difference!
turfmanphil
16 or 17 it's the same difference!
turfmanphil
Cannot agree VR Don't think EH wanted to lose Eagles, Mears, Fox or Elliott thats down to the board, i understand the selling of Eagles and Mears but not Fox and Elliott so EH will get no blame of me.
Fedupclaret
Cannot agree VR Don't think EH wanted to lose Eagles, Mears, Fox or Elliott thats down to the board, i understand the selling of Eagles and Mears but not Fox and Elliott so EH will get no blame of me.
Fedupclaret
EH says on the official site that it was his decision about Elliott. I think he'd have liked to keep Eagles and Mears... if they had wanted to stay. But they wanted to play in PL. So Eddie saying he wished they'd have stayed doesn't mean his wishes were overruled by the Board. Fox is a bit mysterious. But I think Eddie is more than capable of holding his own in planning and decision-making with Brendan and the Board. A key player in those sessions told me at the Clarets Trust Beer Fest in May that Eddie and the Board had identified a group of about 7 who they wanted to ship out because they were not looking at life constructively, or words to that effect. (If I put what was actually said it would just get ****ed!) Eddie would doubtless like a bigger budget. Who wouldn't? But I reckon he accepted the overall plan in about March, and then weighed up the overall picture about Danny when the offer came in, and decided to take the offer, get a player paid above his comparative worth off the books, and spend the saving and incoming dosh in other ways. I sense he has not spent his full budget. He talks about not buying players he doesn't want. Maybe he should give thought to having a slightly more flexible approach for the next window? Dunno.
Couch Potato
EH says on the official site that it was his decision about Elliott. I think he'd have liked to keep Eagles and Mears... if they had wanted to stay. But they wanted to play in PL. So Eddie saying he wished they'd have stayed doesn't mean his wishes were overruled by the Board. Fox is a bit mysterious. But I think Eddie is more than capable of holding his own in planning and decision-making with Brendan and the Board. A key player in those sessions told me at the Clarets Trust Beer Fest in May that Eddie and the Board had identified a group of about 7 who they wanted to ship out because they were not looking at life constructively, or words to that effect. (If I put what was actually said it would just get ****ed!) Eddie would doubtless like a bigger budget. Who wouldn't? But I reckon he accepted the overall plan in about March, and then weighed up the overall picture about Danny when the offer came in, and decided to take the offer, get a player paid above his comparative worth off the books, and spend the saving and incoming dosh in other ways. I sense he has not spent his full budget. He talks about not buying players he doesn't want. Maybe he should give thought to having a slightly more flexible approach for the next window? Dunno.
Couch Potato
Have to say I completely agree with TMP. I'm fast losing faith in the Board. We are building but it is for a future in Div 1. Our defence has been weak and not addressed for a long time. Our 'extensive' scouting network has so far come up with West Ham and Man City Reserve players and EH's ex-Bournemouth lads. We have lost experience and talented players and replaced with unproven 'talent.' Since the day at Wembley, I cant help but feel things have gone stale and unambitious at the top. Time for change?
Eyresy's Left Peg
Have to say I completely agree with TMP. I'm fast losing faith in the Board. We are building but it is for a future in Div 1. Our defence has been weak and not addressed for a long time. Our 'extensive' scouting network has so far come up with West Ham and Man City Reserve players and EH's ex-Bournemouth lads. We have lost experience and talented players and replaced with unproven 'talent.' Since the day at Wembley, I cant help but feel things have gone stale and unambitious at the top. Time for change?
Eyresy's Left Peg
Totaly disagree with above coments, we have lost players who either did not want to play for burnley or would not deal with Championsip this year, Iwelumo to slow, Thompson not good enough, Alxander to old and slow now has been a great player, Elliot tendancy to play woefull balls that reap havoc altho can be good at times, Cork wanted to much money ,Wages, Mears not as good as tripier, Carlisle to slow and wanders about in no mans land, Fox good at going forward cluless in defence, Macdonald lazy. Eagles plays very well ocasionaly or is terrible wanted away long ago, Cort to slow and to imobile. these are the outs. now the inns Tracey good player Haines top drawer, Austin another Payton, mee top footballer,Shotton we will get him ? proven to centre half who can score, can, Sanislas Dynamite can cut defences in half. Stewart good Goalkeeber, Bartley will prove himself. Ings good footballing striker, lets be positive we have a lot better side than we di last year, not forgetting Jay is still here Pattison still here. I predict we will get another couple of loans in next week, Come on clarets supporters lets be positive
Albmaleaf claret
Totaly disagree with above coments, we have lost players who either did not want to play for burnley or would not deal with Championsip this year, Iwelumo to slow, Thompson not good enough, Alxander to old and slow now has been a great player, Elliot tendancy to play woefull balls that reap havoc altho can be good at times, Cork wanted to much money ,Wages, Mears not as good as tripier, Carlisle to slow and wanders about in no mans land, Fox good at going forward cluless in defence, Macdonald lazy. Eagles plays very well ocasionaly or is terrible wanted away long ago, Cort to slow and to imobile. these are the outs. now the inns Tracey good player Haines top drawer, Austin another Payton, mee top footballer,Shotton we will get him ? proven to centre half who can score, can, Sanislas Dynamite can cut defences in half. Stewart good Goalkeeber, Bartley will prove himself. Ings good footballing striker, lets be positive we have a lot better side than we di last year, not forgetting Jay is still here Pattison still here. I predict we will get another couple of loans in next week, Come on clarets supporters lets be positive
Albmaleaf claret
What do you expect folk to say at Beer festivals with all eyes and ears upon them? We have seven players who if paid the going rate instead of reducing their salaries would quite happily have stayed and shared our ambition? Most of them key experienced players. The Board created the climate,you cant't blame the players for wanting away
turfmanphil
What do you expect folk to say at Beer festivals with all eyes and ears upon them? We have seven players who if paid the going rate instead of reducing their salaries would quite happily have stayed and shared our ambition? Most of them key experienced players. The Board created the climate,you cant't blame the players for wanting away
turfmanphil
I would also add they could have used the money to bring in key replacements if thats going to be used as the excuse; they have not and kept back most of the money, reduced the squad size to a bare minnum and brought in lower league/inexperienced players who they knew would accept low comparative salaries
turfmanphil
I would also add they could have used the money to bring in key replacements if thats going to be used as the excuse; they have not and kept back most of the money, reduced the squad size to a bare minnum and brought in lower league/inexperienced players who they knew would accept low comparative salaries
turfmanphil
Do you really think Eagles and Mears would have stayed if offered the same wage as PL Noblot offered? Why?
Couch Potato
Do you really think Eagles and Mears would have stayed if offered the same wage as PL Noblot offered? Why?
Couch Potato
Eagles & Mears would have stayed had the club showed more ambition to try&stay up two seasons ago when we were in the Prem and might also have stayed had they sensed real ambition at the club now to get back! They knew what was going on at the club with salaries being reduced and they probably winced at thie team mates having to accept lower salaries and the fact that the high quality players we needed to get promotion were not going to come on those sort of salaries! In essence they probably felt there was minimal chance of promotion so jumped ship
turfmanphil
Eagles & Mears would have stayed had the club showed more ambition to try&stay up two seasons ago when we were in the Prem and might also have stayed had they sensed real ambition at the club now to get back! They knew what was going on at the club with salaries being reduced and they probably winced at thie team mates having to accept lower salaries and the fact that the high quality players we needed to get promotion were not going to come on those sort of salaries! In essence they probably felt there was minimal chance of promotion so jumped ship
turfmanphil
Young Eddie has to be the one who got rid of Wade not the board. The team we have now is Howes, He like all our other managers before him (eg Cotterill and laws) will take the praise or the flack, stand or fall depending on how the results go. Hope he has made the right choices. I really do.
Grimsby Claret
Young Eddie has to be the one who got rid of Wade not the board. The team we have now is Howes, He like all our other managers before him (eg Cotterill and laws) will take the praise or the flack, stand or fall depending on how the results go. Hope he has made the right choices. I really do.
Grimsby Claret
I think he has made the right choices given the limitations of his budget and the reduced salary cap but where I take issue is with the Board for not giving him the chance to bring in both higher quantity and quality because of those restrictions. We shall have to see what he can do, with the hand he has been dealt. If the squad fails I would not necessarily lay the blame totally at the hands of the gaffer!
turfmanphil
I think he has made the right choices given the limitations of his budget and the reduced salary cap but where I take issue is with the Board for not giving him the chance to bring in both higher quantity and quality because of those restrictions. We shall have to see what he can do, with the hand he has been dealt. If the squad fails I would not necessarily lay the blame totally at the hands of the gaffer!
turfmanphil
Agree with Albma's assesment of the ins and outs above, apart from Wade who would still have done a hell of a job for us this season and probably the next. Overall though, I still think Eddie is building a good side and it's obviously going to be his side. He will have to stand or fall by his decisions, and I pesonally think he'll be doing more than standing by the end of the season, especially if he manages to bring Shotton and another creative midfielder in, albeit on loan. Your points are valid as usual tmp, but availability of cash in itself does not guarantee success, talk to Dave Jones who was able to bring in Bellamy. I'm sure Eddie would prefer a bigger pot, but he seems to be bringing in decent quality at the moment with whatever is available. As always in football, time and results will decide his fate.
WelshClaret
Agree with Albma's assesment of the ins and outs above, apart from Wade who would still have done a hell of a job for us this season and probably the next. Overall though, I still think Eddie is building a good side and it's obviously going to be his side. He will have to stand or fall by his decisions, and I pesonally think he'll be doing more than standing by the end of the season, especially if he manages to bring Shotton and another creative midfielder in, albeit on loan. Your points are valid as usual tmp, but availability of cash in itself does not guarantee success, talk to Dave Jones who was able to bring in Bellamy. I'm sure Eddie would prefer a bigger pot, but he seems to be bringing in decent quality at the moment with whatever is available. As always in football, time and results will decide his fate.
WelshClaret
I wish the money from the Mears, Eagles and Fox sales had been spent like promised by the board. It is a fact they said the money or at least some of it would go on transfers, and I don't think a reported 250,000 maximum for Hines and around 300,000 for Stan represents much truth from that. If we say we brought in approx 5.5million from sales and spent around 2.35 where has the extra money gone? I didn't think I would have to wait long before the 'Lets judge after the loan window' I remember hearing the same thing during the transfer window. My statistics on the money are: Out 3million combined fee for Mears and Eagles 1.8million for Fox 200,000 for Iwelumo 500,000 for Elliot Total 5million In 1million for Ings 800,000 for Treacy 250,000 for Hines 300,000 for Stanislas Total 2,350,000 These are all reported transfer fee's. Where is the 2,650,000 of extra cash? And more to the point where are the signings? How can the board whine on about poverty with cash like that lining their pockets? Loans are not good enough and to those speculating that Shotton would sign after half a season on loan to us may do well to remember what happened with Cork, we had two opportunities to sign him and did not.
YorkshireClaret
I wish the money from the Mears, Eagles and Fox sales had been spent like promised by the board. It is a fact they said the money or at least some of it would go on transfers, and I don't think a reported 250,000 maximum for Hines and around 300,000 for Stan represents much truth from that. If we say we brought in approx 5.5million from sales and spent around 2.35 where has the extra money gone? I didn't think I would have to wait long before the 'Lets judge after the loan window' I remember hearing the same thing during the transfer window. My statistics on the money are: Out 3million combined fee for Mears and Eagles 1.8million for Fox 200,000 for Iwelumo 500,000 for Elliot Total 5million In 1million for Ings 800,000 for Treacy 250,000 for Hines 300,000 for Stanislas Total 2,350,000 These are all reported transfer fee's. Where is the 2,650,000 of extra cash? And more to the point where are the signings? How can the board whine on about poverty with cash like that lining their pockets? Loans are not good enough and to those speculating that Shotton would sign after half a season on loan to us may do well to remember what happened with Cork, we had two opportunities to sign him and did not.
YorkshireClaret
Its a difficult one clarets ! Eddie is so far into this project backed by the board we really don't have any option but to back it! only time will tell if we got it so right or very wrong, Eddie knows we are short of bodies this can be rectified via loans before our next game, loans aren't that bad either, gives us an opportunity to try before you buy, In Eddie we have to trust! lets kick back relax, and enjoy the season for me we are in transition, whether we needed to be is a whole different argument ... we are where we are let's get on with it ! UTC
hollinsclaret
Its a difficult one clarets ! Eddie is so far into this project backed by the board we really don't have any option but to back it! only time will tell if we got it so right or very wrong, Eddie knows we are short of bodies this can be rectified via loans before our next game, loans aren't that bad either, gives us an opportunity to try before you buy, In Eddie we have to trust! lets kick back relax, and enjoy the season for me we are in transition, whether we needed to be is a whole different argument ... we are where we are let's get on with it ! UTC
hollinsclaret
Some good stuff Couch - your first and second points in particular. TMP - sometimes I wonder if you're feelings on our board would only really be remedied if the men in charge were simply richer. The idea of paying higher salaries and spending more on players is great of course, but I just get the idea that our Board simply doesn't have the dosh that would allow for that approach. What I hope is happening is a model that will have us challenging for the next 5-10 years as a second flight force, with the chance f being promoted. What is very probable within that timeframe is that the Championship will morph into The Premier League Two. Would we like to be part of that, or should we just spend everything we have now - because of the incoming Fifa Fair Play rules - and fight with the pressure of immediate promotion VS financial meltdown and risk being cut adrift by poor fiscal governance like Sheff Utd (great example for those who think we should be paying 22K per week for players - James Beattie / Ched Evans anyone?) / Sheff Wed or even PNE. Back to the transfer window, well I'm disappointed we lost Wade but I hear EH and it sounds like Wade wanted to go. Perhaps EH failed to get the best from Wade, so the impact of Junior Stanislas as his replacement is key. I do think he will raid the loan market at the earliest possible opportunity for a defender and central mid.
cubanclaret
Some good stuff Couch - your first and second points in particular. TMP - sometimes I wonder if you're feelings on our board would only really be remedied if the men in charge were simply richer. The idea of paying higher salaries and spending more on players is great of course, but I just get the idea that our Board simply doesn't have the dosh that would allow for that approach. What I hope is happening is a model that will have us challenging for the next 5-10 years as a second flight force, with the chance f being promoted. What is very probable within that timeframe is that the Championship will morph into The Premier League Two. Would we like to be part of that, or should we just spend everything we have now - because of the incoming Fifa Fair Play rules - and fight with the pressure of immediate promotion VS financial meltdown and risk being cut adrift by poor fiscal governance like Sheff Utd (great example for those who think we should be paying 22K per week for players - James Beattie / Ched Evans anyone?) / Sheff Wed or even PNE. Back to the transfer window, well I'm disappointed we lost Wade but I hear EH and it sounds like Wade wanted to go. Perhaps EH failed to get the best from Wade, so the impact of Junior Stanislas as his replacement is key. I do think he will raid the loan market at the earliest possible opportunity for a defender and central mid.
cubanclaret
How peoples minds change on views amazes me mine included, CP how you manage to turn a negative into a positive amazes me you should be up there with Mr Campbell, much how I love you as a friend we have this so wrong, our intentions all Summer were to bring players in? what happened there then, we waited for players to go and still we didn't bring any players in, if you want to count our two loan signings from City and Stewart the goalkeeping legend who Bournemouth kicked out then fair play, I agree getting our money back for Fox and a bit more was good business but you knew there was a but, bringing in no cover for the back four is ridiculous (cue the yeah we are going to get Shotton though) not saying this to just you CP ;) aiming at everyone who thinks we are going up which we should be had we shown ambition, go back to May a few good signings and we will be there or there abouts, I fully agreed with it. please posters don't come back with well we could not get so and so because they were too dear or we could not get anybody because we were waiting on other clubs this should have been sorted early days not last minute one in one out,17 players mostly inexperienced at this level will not see us through, injuries, suspensions not a Jack Palance which is a shame when we could have gone for it this season more than ever but no we wanted to bring the wage structure down forget Cork, forget Elliott, forget Mears, forget Fox, forget Eagles, Carlisle, Cort, Alexander, Iwelumo, you see the picture anybody who is on a decent wage and bring in nobodys who may or may not come good? a big gamble if you ask me, supporters money I add not mine these days..glad I ain't rich enough to afford one much rather spend my money on my family but will always follow the Clarets and my wife tells me I spend to much time on Vital Burnley to which I reply your never off facebook, happy days or not? Burnley I meant we shall see. UTC I think ;)
8clarets8
How peoples minds change on views amazes me mine included, CP how you manage to turn a negative into a positive amazes me you should be up there with Mr Campbell, much how I love you as a friend we have this so wrong, our intentions all Summer were to bring players in? what happened there then, we waited for players to go and still we didn't bring any players in, if you want to count our two loan signings from City and Stewart the goalkeeping legend who Bournemouth kicked out then fair play, I agree getting our money back for Fox and a bit more was good business but you knew there was a but, bringing in no cover for the back four is ridiculous (cue the yeah we are going to get Shotton though) not saying this to just you CP ;) aiming at everyone who thinks we are going up which we should be had we shown ambition, go back to May a few good signings and we will be there or there abouts, I fully agreed with it. please posters don't come back with well we could not get so and so because they were too dear or we could not get anybody because we were waiting on other clubs this should have been sorted early days not last minute one in one out,17 players mostly inexperienced at this level will not see us through, injuries, suspensions not a Jack Palance which is a shame when we could have gone for it this season more than ever but no we wanted to bring the wage structure down forget Cork, forget Elliott, forget Mears, forget Fox, forget Eagles, Carlisle, Cort, Alexander, Iwelumo, you see the picture anybody who is on a decent wage and bring in nobodys who may or may not come good? a big gamble if you ask me, supporters money I add not mine these days..glad I ain't rich enough to afford one much rather spend my money on my family but will always follow the Clarets and my wife tells me I spend to much time on Vital Burnley to which I reply your never off facebook, happy days or not? Burnley I meant we shall see. UTC I think ;)
8clarets8
I'm sure EH has got the picture by now, so even if he is successful, he will exit when he gets his chance. Then we can bring BL back.
pmh200111
I'm sure EH has got the picture by now, so even if he is successful, he will exit when he gets his chance. Then we can bring BL back.
pmh200111
'Your points are valid as usual tmp, but availability of cash in itself does not guarantee success' No,but it increases the CHANCES of success whereas reducing the squad size, experience and quality in the squad will almost certainly reduce our chances
turfmanphil
'Your points are valid as usual tmp, but availability of cash in itself does not guarantee success' No,but it increases the CHANCES of success whereas reducing the squad size, experience and quality in the squad will almost certainly reduce our chances
turfmanphil
Re CCs 'our Board simply doesn't have the dosh that would allow for that approach' They would have the dosh had they considered speculating to accumulate and taken on board some debt especially during our Premier League season. Three additional players in the squad up to say 8-10 million (Stoke spent 20 million in their first season) would have increased our chances of staying up and had we still failed they could have been sold on with the club extoling the virtues of a 'good bit of business' as usual! Of course had we stayed up, we would not be having this discussion now and our financial position would look a lot healthier with gates on average about 20,000! All of this of course I debated fully at the time of relegation and was shouted down by many saying we would now be much stronger in the Championship and could look forward to a greater chance of promotion! Yeah right
turfmanphil
Re CCs 'our Board simply doesn't have the dosh that would allow for that approach' They would have the dosh had they considered speculating to accumulate and taken on board some debt especially during our Premier League season. Three additional players in the squad up to say 8-10 million (Stoke spent 20 million in their first season) would have increased our chances of staying up and had we still failed they could have been sold on with the club extoling the virtues of a 'good bit of business' as usual! Of course had we stayed up, we would not be having this discussion now and our financial position would look a lot healthier with gates on average about 20,000! All of this of course I debated fully at the time of relegation and was shouted down by many saying we would now be much stronger in the Championship and could look forward to a greater chance of promotion! Yeah right
turfmanphil
TMP. You're very much a 'cup half empty' guy. I was very disappointed to see Elliot leave, mainly because he seemed to think he had a god given right to be in the starting 11 and wouldn't fight for his place. The arguments about money have always been at Burnley. Even since Bob Lord we have been a selling club. Just let's get behind the boys that are now at the club and Eddie. Don't forget, The Burnley crowd in full flow are like an extra player.
CanadaClaret
TMP. You're very much a 'cup half empty' guy. I was very disappointed to see Elliot leave, mainly because he seemed to think he had a god given right to be in the starting 11 and wouldn't fight for his place. The arguments about money have always been at Burnley. Even since Bob Lord we have been a selling club. Just let's get behind the boys that are now at the club and Eddie. Don't forget, The Burnley crowd in full flow are like an extra player.
CanadaClaret
I dont think questioning the ambition and competence of the Board is pessimism. We all want to see the Clarets do well and will support the team to do this as long as they give 100%. The central issue here is that promotion gave us a wonderful opportunity and balance sheet to re-establish ourselves in the top flight after 33 years and our Board got cold feet. To continue this daft analogy, they dipped their toes in the water, thought it was a bit nippy, so put their thick socks back on and went back to sleep.
Eyresy's Left Peg
I dont think questioning the ambition and competence of the Board is pessimism. We all want to see the Clarets do well and will support the team to do this as long as they give 100%. The central issue here is that promotion gave us a wonderful opportunity and balance sheet to re-establish ourselves in the top flight after 33 years and our Board got cold feet. To continue this daft analogy, they dipped their toes in the water, thought it was a bit nippy, so put their thick socks back on and went back to sleep.
Eyresy's Left Peg
Actually Canada, I think I am a ' cup half full type of guy! The cup half emoty types seem to be the board & supportive fans who negatively seem to think that going into some debt would lead this club into hell fire and damnation! ;-)
turfmanphil
Actually Canada, I think I am a ' cup half full type of guy! The cup half emoty types seem to be the board & supportive fans who negatively seem to think that going into some debt would lead this club into hell fire and damnation! ;-)
turfmanphil
"They dipped their toes in the water, thought it was a bit nippy, so put their thick socks back on and went back to sleep" good analogy, - going back to sleep is nice for them, but I didn't want the club to sleep so they can stay in charge on their silly little unambitious level Burnley won't be seeing a penny of my money until they are gone.
pmh200111
"They dipped their toes in the water, thought it was a bit nippy, so put their thick socks back on and went back to sleep" good analogy, - going back to sleep is nice for them, but I didn't want the club to sleep so they can stay in charge on their silly little unambitious level Burnley won't be seeing a penny of my money until they are gone.
pmh200111
I seem to recall not so long ago the club nearly went under all for the sake of quarter of a million. I like ambition to but it has to be tempered with good sense. I know where all the spenders are coming from but if we do a Southampton I don't there's any rich uncle out there willing to rescue us and we will go out of business.
CanadaClaret
I seem to recall not so long ago the club nearly went under all for the sake of quarter of a million. I like ambition to but it has to be tempered with good sense. I know where all the spenders are coming from but if we do a Southampton I don't there's any rich uncle out there willing to rescue us and we will go out of business.
CanadaClaret
Dunno Canada. Given the new globalisation, if the Saints got a Swiss construction magnate who wanted somewhere to park his ocean-going yacht 10 minutes from an international airport and 60 by train from London, maybe we'll get a Canadian minerals billionaire who likes mountain-biking in the rain and nights out in Halifax (and I don't mean Nova Scotia)? Meanwhile, thanks for all the thoughtful comments 8c8. But you know us Couch Potatos... we take everything lying down. :-) I do like ELP's analogy. How can we fit the commercial property crash, credit crunch, banking crisis, recession, and death of a director into the picture? Forgive me, I always think things are always more rather than less complicated, and therefore I always end up believing that 'stuff happens' rather than 'bad men (or women) wreck everything'. But to each his and her own.
Couch Potato
Dunno Canada. Given the new globalisation, if the Saints got a Swiss construction magnate who wanted somewhere to park his ocean-going yacht 10 minutes from an international airport and 60 by train from London, maybe we'll get a Canadian minerals billionaire who likes mountain-biking in the rain and nights out in Halifax (and I don't mean Nova Scotia)? Meanwhile, thanks for all the thoughtful comments 8c8. But you know us Couch Potatos... we take everything lying down. :-) I do like ELP's analogy. How can we fit the commercial property crash, credit crunch, banking crisis, recession, and death of a director into the picture? Forgive me, I always think things are always more rather than less complicated, and therefore I always end up believing that 'stuff happens' rather than 'bad men (or women) wreck everything'. But to each his and her own.
Couch Potato
And what if we dont do a Southampton and reach nirvana and stay there? This sob story that only Burnley will go into admin and disappear off the face of the earth I just dont buy Someone will rescue us should the worst ever happen, all the other clubs have been rescued (Including Plymouth the latest by looks of it) unless you think we are a Chester waiting to happen, a club that has never played at our sort of level
turfmanphil
And what if we dont do a Southampton and reach nirvana and stay there? This sob story that only Burnley will go into admin and disappear off the face of the earth I just dont buy Someone will rescue us should the worst ever happen, all the other clubs have been rescued (Including Plymouth the latest by looks of it) unless you think we are a Chester waiting to happen, a club that has never played at our sort of level
turfmanphil
TMP - To be fair I think the case of Stoke City supports my point. Peter Coates is worth 750 million...so hardly comparable with the personal wealth of Barry and co.
cubanclaret
TMP - To be fair I think the case of Stoke City supports my point. Peter Coates is worth 750 million...so hardly comparable with the personal wealth of Barry and co.
cubanclaret
I don't think personal wealth of any directors is the issue here. I am talking about the financial balls to take out a loan and take on some modest debt in an effort to speculate to accumulate. I mention Stoke because even they were relatively frugal in their first season but managed to stay up spending about 20 million on players. I believe had we found another 8-10 million from somewhere for 2-3 key additional players, we would have stood a far greater chance of staying up, might have kept Coyle because we were showing some ambition and might now be reaping the rewards of Premier League life and money instead of fast becoming a midtable,punching above our weight, team in transition again. That scenario I hasten to add against a backdrop of Parachute payments which wont last forever keeping us afloat ,falling gates and and the the threat of the FIFA Fair Play ruling over our heads which will make us even less competitive if we haven't achieved promotion by then
turfmanphil
I don't think personal wealth of any directors is the issue here. I am talking about the financial balls to take out a loan and take on some modest debt in an effort to speculate to accumulate. I mention Stoke because even they were relatively frugal in their first season but managed to stay up spending about 20 million on players. I believe had we found another 8-10 million from somewhere for 2-3 key additional players, we would have stood a far greater chance of staying up, might have kept Coyle because we were showing some ambition and might now be reaping the rewards of Premier League life and money instead of fast becoming a midtable,punching above our weight, team in transition again. That scenario I hasten to add against a backdrop of Parachute payments which wont last forever keeping us afloat ,falling gates and and the the threat of the FIFA Fair Play ruling over our heads which will make us even less competitive if we haven't achieved promotion by then
turfmanphil
How can we fit the commercial property crash, credit crunch, banking crisis, recession, and death of a director into the picture? Read more: http://www.burnley.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=253591#ixzz1WywpoJCQ
Couch Potato
How can we fit the commercial property crash, credit crunch, banking crisis, recession, and death of a director into the picture? Read more: http://www.burnley.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=253591#ixzz1WywpoJCQ
Couch Potato
I am sure they could have still taken out a loan had they the intent to do so or indeed they could have re-invested their own loan money again after taking it back. They made it clear they were not willing to go into debt rather than the banks were not willing to let them
turfmanphil
I am sure they could have still taken out a loan had they the intent to do so or indeed they could have re-invested their own loan money again after taking it back. They made it clear they were not willing to go into debt rather than the banks were not willing to let them
turfmanphil
 

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