Fox Becomes a Saint!-Mega Debate Continues!

This club seriously must be in dire financial straits, it is certainly clear they can't compete on salaries in this division and that is only going to get worse. Utterly peed off! We are becoming a total laughing stock. Cue the' oh well we still have Easton, things aint too bad!' brigade. Yeah right!

If Jay Rod goes! It does not bear thinking about.

Gutted... The only positive thing I can think of regarding this, is that Howe will now have a new defence. Guess it is a matter of time before Jay will be sold - january?

Don't understand this one think Kilby and the board are taking the ***** now and if its against Eddie's wishes i think EH could be the next to walk.

SACK THE BOARD ................ Proof the the lunatics have taken over the asylum !!! NO EXCUSES THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE....... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Sorry meant Tripper and Treacy ;)

Cuban - guess that Kilby will once again come out an claim "that he wanted to leave and wasn't happy at BFC and that it would be madness to keep a want-away player in the squad" .. Same BS as allways

Well said, Grimsby

I do think it might be Eddie Howe who has sanctioned this and not necessarily the Board btw. Mee and Easton can both play at left back which could allow EH to spend the proceeds on a different area of the squad he'd rather strengthen. I'd be surprised if the Board has gone over his head.

tmp; not sure wether Tripp and Trecy are better than Mears/Eagles, but lets wait untill jan./next summer to judge that. Lets give them a chance

My first ever post on here was the appointment of Laws and back then i said sack the board but was told how wonderfull this board as been for BFC. Well what a load of bolloxs even though i agreed with the sale of Mears and Eagles but this one how on *****in earth is this good for BFC. I'm just glad these robbing ********s are not looking after my pension fund.

Recount.. tmp has posted 5 times!

Great post Cuban till you completely deflated even me with your last sentence!!! :-) But before we stick even more knives into Brian it's interesting to think how folk have reacted to us parting company with Cork and Fox, both of whom he brought to the club, when when had very little time to do any planning, and apparently used some sort of 'accountancy system' to find players, which has been vilified relentlessly on messageboards and in fanzines ever since. But enough of looking back. As in all things in life, it's what happens next that counts.

I thought there was a clause in the players contracts which meant much lower wages if we were relegated ? Why dont they tell us how much we sold him for ? Disappointed with the club statement we can not compete with the likes of Southampton and half the championship clubs.

Selling Fox doesn't bother me in the slightest, Bringing players in who can do a job for us before the transfer window closes does,

As for Jad Rod I can only hope he stays but I would be surprised If he does. I posted on the other thread regarding Southampton getting a £12million windfall and offering something we could not refuse... I think Jay will be going and their left back coming here in a player and cash deal. Are we taking bets on who goes after Jay? My money is on Howe after he has had enough!!

although im dissapointed with todays news on fox its still not all doom and gloom. i sadly dont manage to get to the turf often due to work, however when i do get chance ive noticed that fox often gets caught out of position, makes poor decisions and in my opinion is an average left back at this level. my main concern would be holding onto quality players at this level, for example jay rod. if your reading mr kilby and the board there are a lot of fans with boiling blood, you need to come out and face us with the truth, none of the "good bit of business" bull s**t like is stated on the official website, just the truth. lets look forward to these new signings as promised. saw tevez and fabregas having a drink in burnley last night (you never know). come on the clarets!!!

Never rated Fox and think this is a very good deal the timing however is a blow, time to splash the cash now and get some replacements in before it's too late UTC

Vin, Do you Love our board milking the club dry and not releasing funds for new players? Two of the players you mentioned have no real commitment or loyalty to our club. Is it just blind optimism or a lack of ambition for our club that is the driving force behind your posts?

Seem to remember a lot of posters saying Fox was rubbish just after Laws bought him, £1.8 million is a great deal, I would hope the board said your not having Jay Rod full-stop but give us a good price for Fox and you can have him, like I said earlier the timing is lousy, £4.8 million in and 800k out, give Howe the £4 million that's left to bring some quality in, no idea if that will happen but that's how it should happen.

Fox has improved as a player saw his first game scored a great free kick on that occasion, but did have some poor games for a while I thought Easton was better when he took his place for a few games, Saw Danny's last game too. In between those games Fox is in my opinion a better player now than when we signed him. Southampton must be impressed to pay around 2 million ish for him.

Think they maybe going off previous stats like Laws did GC.

I may be going agains opinion here , but as a football coach myself. I was not a danny fox fan. Left the left hand side wide open with his miscalculated runs many times leaving the central defenders stretched. I also think he lakes a little pace to recover when caught out of position. I wish him all the best at Southhampton. but do hope that all these teams that went into administration, took the easy road out & now have millions to spend do not do as well as they think they are going to do.

I'm in agreement with Couch and Cuban on this one. Having said that I'm not a big fan of loan signings. Still beggars can't be choosers - but how is it that we seem to be the beggars? (I have read everything that has been said on our finances too.)

Some of you would have been expecting me to post and most will know what I am going to say! so in order to not disappoint here we go 1 - This is one of the largest reactions I have seen on this site, along with the fact my twitter went into meltdown on twitter clarets today, why mention this? well that's fairly simply, the overwhelming negativity that this deal drives is without doubt the turning point for the incumbent board, after a fairly ferociousness reaction, Daz Bently scrambled out a statement from the board which to me added insult to injury, the fact that the club reports that it was an offer that could not refuse, sends a shiver down my and many other clarets spines, this was no "premiership club offer" it wasn't even a "he wants to leave the club" and it wasn't a "he's in his last year of his contract" , moreover it was a poxy £300k more than we paid for him only a year ago. 2- The ultimate line from the board is really this, any reasonable offer for ANY of our players will not be refused !! All from a club that has had the benefit of £90M over five years. I do believe Eddie Howe will have approved this deal, but itself this causes me concern, I have NEVER seen a manager clear out a squad as quick as this, in itself that's a really positive thing however given the fact that this tight fisted hopeless board have only managed to obtain the services of one full signing ( not loans) then does this not tell you that we are falling way short of players agents and clubs valuations for their players? moreover this leaves us open to other clubs taking our targets, something openly admitted in the statement released by the club today when they talk about being frustrated by other clubs! the question is how many more are they to come in and can they be anywhere near the levels of the players that have left.? The simple fact is this THE CURRENT BOARD ARE PLANNING FOR CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL NEXT SEASON AND THE WAGES BILL IS BEING CUT ACCORDINGLY! THIS WHOLE ISSUE TURNS ON THIS ONE FACT...... SHOULD THE BOARD BE PLANNING IN THIS NEGATIVE WAY OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE SHOULD THEY BE DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO PUSH FOR PROMOTION RIGHT NOW BEFORE THE MONEY RUNS OUT. You know my thoughts, this is a negative penny pinching board, and we need a change, it cant come soon enough for me the strategy is all wrong wrong wrong, today demonstrated that the lunatics finally did take over the asylum time for mass changes at the top as well as one the field of play

Im incredibly disappointed about the loss of Danny Fox, in addition to the loss of Eagles and Mears and the failure to complete the signing of Jack Cork. When you add it all up, we have now lost 9 players from last season, and brought in one permanent signing and two season long loans. This is a complete failure in my opinion. We are light on numbers now, and we absolutely need some quality new signings. If we were to lose Jay Rodriguez, that would be the final straw for me. We still have some good players, and if we can hold onto them and add proven quality players to the squad, I think we will have a chance at promotion, but the board are an absolute disgrace. With a board with an attitude where by if they see an oppurtunity to take some money they take it without any consideration of the football team how can you expect any form of success. Its just very sad.

Where on twitter hc? I will post some up tomorrow will you believe that? think you guys need to live in the real world....£1.8 million for Fox is great business, that said spend Howe spend

If the rumours are true that Eddie Howe did not sanction the release of Fox and in fact refused to go to a press conference then we are in big trouble. I think we are anyway since we are clearly shot to pieces financially which is a total disgrace after a year in the Premiership. There is a seed change of opinion going on and even one infamous editor of another site has written an opinionated article describing the folly of this sale and how it has angered so many fans. Normally he would not dare criticise the Board. Anybody who has seen Fox play recently will have seen the improvements he has made and had Howe thought Easton was a better option he would have played him. The thing about Saints and administration is that they came through it stronger WTBM whereas we fear going anywhere near it or even going into any sort of debt and prefer instead to head downwards by decimating the squad and ensuring we cant compete at this level financially or on the pitch

It maybe a nail in the coffin but this is Danny Fox we are talking about, often a liability on our left, seldom plays well with who ever we put in front of him. Has improved, but lets face it the reaction is about the lack of ambition more than the player leaving. Many posted on here that when Fox was out last season Easton was a better all round left back. I understand all sides of the argument but refuse to believeFox leaving is the end of the world.

Shotton a young highly rated player - no comparison with Cort. I'm hoping to get him AND another couple of players - hopefully for less money than we have just received for TM, CE and DF. Don't forget the CI money, too, plus the wages gone from the bill (RVDS, ST, GA, KMcD, etc...) How much did we get for CI in the end? *My last post was supposed to have said "'m disappointed but if..." by the way!*

On Shotton- Burnley were facing competition from a number of Championship clubs, including Ipswich and Derby County So we are stuffed then. All bigger clubs offering the going rate to compete in the Championship. Fox on his transfer to Sainst '“The chairman’s got ambitions which match mine, and I want to be part of something special here.” I wish ours bloody did!!

Grr... I posted a long piece earlier this morning and it's not come up. Probably my fault, as I trust tmp implicitly to allow free expression of views on here, even while we have different views on the most appropriate strategy for Bfc. (I am glad he has edited his own contribution above this thread from what he put there originally.) What I said earlier this morning was mostly pointing out how basic facts of population, geography and lifestyle mean we should use Wrexham as a more appropriate comparison than Southampton if we are thinking about why Burnley needs to avoid financial failure. In which context, I said I'd be far more anxious than I am now if Hollins were our Chairman. I'll just add that I don't think the evidence supports Adam's suggestion that if the Board see an opportunity to take some money they take it without any consideration of the football team. So that means I don't agree with tmp saying Adam's the most sensible one in this thread either. Evidence? We turned down an offer for Pato. We have turned down an offer for Jay Rod. The Board statement says we have turned down offers. If 'sensible' is tweaking evidence to fit our opinions, that seems problematic to me. Obviously we are all hoping for some good news soon. Obviously it would be a dagger to the heart if Jay Rod went anywhere but someone like Arsenal for anything less than something like £10million. But the footnote of Danny Fox as a Claret is surely that the biggest stir he ever caused in our emotions was when he left. And his leaving was both part and parcel of a clearly explained Board strategy for managing our payroll, and part and parcel of fans' wider emotions.

The Fox interview just says what any player says when joining a new club, putting the most positive spin on it, and being warm to the new fans. The Howe interview? Not sure we need to read between the lines to find out that he's miffed when he says openly that he's disappointed? I expect that all sorts will be read into it anyway! But Eddie is nothing if not resilient, and the sort of bloke who, when he says 'its not ideal' is already thinking forwards about how to manage the situation and move ahead. Let's face it, if he'd said anything else, the fans would have been all over him, and I thnk he's wise enough to leave dealing with that heat to the Board.

TMP - does the 'can't do' attitude from the Board extend to when they successfully 'bet the ranch' to finance Coyle's squad-build necessary to reach the 'promised land'....or was that all just pot luck...?

And then let Coyle spend even more afterwards, Cuban, for example on Eckersley and Guerrero! TMP - please forgive me if I am wrong. I have a very powerful memory of one particular word in your cover piece that's not there any more. But I would fully accept that I was reading it in a heightened emotional state and may therefore have a false memory. I completely agree with your point that putting labels on views as 'positive' or 'negative' is simplistic. But if we're going to forensically examine Board statements and accuse them of spin, we at least need to acknowledge that statements by former players are highly spun too, rather than just use them uncritically to support our viewpoints. Otherwise, someone's going to start quoting Laffs as evidence that the club's been 'hell' for a decade. Anyway, I seem to remember being just about the only one at first to take the stand that the Mears and Eagles exits were not casue for panic, so I am pleased to provide a similar service to this debate now. And let's face it, if we all agree with each other, it would get boring on here very quickly. See you tomorrow! Should we sell tickets? The Big Debate. Couch vs Turfman. Flora Sandes pub. 1215. Come and join in. Have a smile and a laugh, and then go and get behind the lads!

What we did with Coyle in the Prem was give him far too free a hand in transfers. One of the PL's worst defences ever, yet we brought in Guerrero. Did anyone see him successfully complete a tackle? Then we said 'no' when he wnated more young flair players rather than the defernders we all wanted. And he just 'cashed in while his stock was high' as was quite probably his plan all along. Do you honestly think he'd have stayed if the Board had let him bring in Weiss, Holden and Wilshere? Or was he in effect

By the way, is premature submission a side-effect of the 'erotic weed' that fedup suggested I was smokin (about 50 posts north in this tread)!!! ;-)

We will sell anyone if the price is high enough someone comes in tomorrow with a stupid bid for any of our players they will be gone. My worry is we are low on numbers & any injuries on sat we'll be screwed. Where on earth is this new striker?

I think the board have been vastly out of order in this situation with Danny Fox. It is beyond all comprehension how the board of a professional football club can disrupt a managers plans by selling a first team player without the managers concent. It must be very frustrating for Eddie Howe, the board have effectively made him powerless to resist this transfer. How exactly can the board justify the sale of an important first team member, for an average fee, at this point when the season has already began. How can Eddie possibly plan for the new season and build a team when he doesnt know what players he is still going to have at the club by the end of the transfer window. He is going to have to readjust his transfer targets now, which will cost us more time, and we will be even less organised in the games to come. The Eagles and Mears sale was as bad as I thought it could get, but it seems as if the board would be willing to sell every single member of the team with a relatively suitable offer for each individual. The board is an absolute disgrace and are clearly blindsighted if they cannot tell that they are ripping this football team apart day by day. I cannot believe this, its shameful.

Coyle.despite the fact I despise the sod so much now, was the best manager this club had had in ages. Yes,he made some mistakes on the transfer front,but what he managed to do was give the squad belief they could get promotion and through passion, tactical wizardry and man-management motivation skills made sure they did! He also had more money that previous managers like Stan&Cotts could only dream of. The Board in their stupidity though then refused to give Coyle the financial tools he needed to try and keep the club in the Prem so he fecked off to a more ambitious club. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had he stayed we would now still be a Prem club and that all this pleading poverty bollox we are now suffering would have by now been consigned to the dustbin of history

"By the way anybody who thinks Trippier and Treacy are better than Mears and Eagles at their best is having a laugh!" Mears was crap in defence, so shot our capacity to win anything cos we are almost always a goal or two down while he was AWOL and Eagles 'at his best' was once a month (at best!) - sad to say we should have got the £4M from Everton last year. These were two it was good to get shot of. Trippier is already settling in to be much better than Mears and (I know it's a big 'and') if Treacy can develop some consistency, then he'll be double the worth of Eagles. It's a no-brainer! So far, onwards and upwards - let's see how good Easton really can become, because he will be quite a star!

15 goals and 10 assists for a winger. Im sorry but you can go on and on about how inconsistent Eagles was if you want, but he was more than productive enough. He was the kind of player who could turn a game in your favour and even though I rate Treacy very highly, you cannot just assume that he is better than Eagles.

Adam I agree with you, if we stick to statistics eagles got more goals and assists than treacy last season. Fox was first choice not Easton. Facts speak for themselves, Assumptions do not. Fox will not be the last to leave this summer in my opinion as a football coach (fantasy league). I will take back all the negative comments about the board if they prove me to be wrong, however I think once the window has passed and sufficient signings haven't materialised it might spark some of the members of this site into withdrawing their heads from the clouds and putting pressure on the board for change.

What is the plan for change, YC, that you want us to pressure for? Getting the Board to 'go' is a meaningless slogan. They can only 'go' if someone else wants to buy the club. Making a change like that now would bring everything to a dead halt. All the work to rebuild the organisation's psychology, still fragile post-Coyle would end. A resurgence of teamwork would be turned into chaos. Besides, are there any buyers? Who? Or is the plan to change just the Chairman? The Board have already told us they want the current chairman to stay for now, and he's said he'll probably go in a year, because that's what he wants to do at this time of his life. My (and most other people's) guess is that the next Chairman will be Brendan Flood, but with the big Modus/AIB case pending for June 2012, my guess is that he wants to get that out of the way first. But neither he nor any of the directors can talk about that, even if they'd like to take us into their confidence. John B would be next in line. What does anyone on here know about him? In what other way are you proposing the Board change, YC? I'd give serious thought to joining the campaign if I could see a widely shared coherent view about what the goal is. But at the moment I can't see a practical proposition being put forward in a shared and coherent way. I understand the anger and share the frustration, but personally I worry about it having negative rather than positive outcomes because it doesn't seem to be directed to a goal that is either clear or can be shown to be achievable.

'I wonder why Coyle didn't go for Trippier and Treacy then? I rest my case! Could this thread get to 100 I wonder? ;-)' Cos he's a poser and wanted to get his own back on BFC!

Well he succeeded and we lost out then!!

Yes we will be there, but I hope this incompetent Board won't be!

Wait and see. Eagles certainly can't cut it in the Prem. Mears we will have to see, but his last effort when we were there were a partnership in one of the worst defences in the Premiership and mainly because he was AWOL most of the time!

It's the Board that assure us they have taken a constructive road, only trouble is, its the Road to Nowhere!

Oh gawd not another plan! They have had these plans in the past under the fancy name of three-year and five year. Trouble is after a year of failing to achieve it, they bring in another one to cover their failed tracks and so it goes on! Failure to buy back the Turf, failure to upgrade the Turf, failure to invest in players, failure to try and stay in the Prem, failure to keep hold of the best successful manager this club has ever had, failure to appoint a manager who could have kept us up and above all failure to show any ambition whatsoever! We need a plan alright, a plan to get another Board in, one that has financial balls and a can do attitude!

I appreciate what you are trying to say WC but with the best will in the world if you don't give Eddie the builder the tools to get a club promoted and then take away some of his bricks, he is never going to build a strong foundation. Coyle was a one-off, I suspect and was in the right place at the right time when the club finally had some money and allowed him to spend it.Pity they didn't learn from that

Don't go to matches if you want to be heard.

Just to get it off my chest. Why are all the comments from Phil negative? Start supporting the lads we do have, not the ones we have lost and get back to enjoying the game of football......... do you remember Burnley 1 Man City 6......... one of the best games iv ever been to......... 6 0 and u *$"%ed it up haha and some fans had left the ground before then. Im still a happy claret.

It was good to see tmp at the Palace. Not a happy day as measured by results, and I was gloomy watching after their penalty, which took the stuffing out of what had been a promising spell either side of the break, and as I'm now on a personal 8-game winless streak when attending games. Beforehand, tmp and I cheerfully rehearsed our viewpoints, helped by Brompton Claret at the Thornton Heath Wetherspoons, and a Palace friend of mine who has just accepted a minor advisory post with the government on gangs. He could see but not smell the Croydon smoke from his home on the hill above the Palace. We walked together to Selhurst along the peaceful, bustling and colourful streets in a convivial mood. During the game, tmp and I didn't disagree on much at all, but having just read his comments here and those of our gaffer on the official site, I am going to get behind the gaffer and let tmp down gently that his application for a seat on my fantasy advisory panel for Bfc has been rejected! Too much dreaming for unlikely investors, no clear plan on what Board change he wants or how to achieve it, no clear strategies to flesh out his entirely understandable frustration beyond spend/spend/spend, and the wrong noises to help with the motivational rebuild! Runs a good website though, should definitely stick to his day job, and I look forward to the next pre-match drinks, if I don't ban myself from going on ever again, given my current winless streak! Bit things do change... don't they? Get your internet sorted VR!!!

Thanks Hollins. We all needed a laugh this morning, and that had me chuckling for several moments. But, yes, I think the Board do have a plan. It is not a plan I agree with entirely, though a bit more than you to judge from your posts :-)... and it may turn out to be a bad plan. But it has been clearly stated: payroll at 60% of revenue; increase and diversify sources of income; invest more in youth; reduce the average age; get rid of those not wanting to be with us; reduce disparities in pay so they don't unsettle the players they want to keep; address other post-Coyle and post-relegation psychological problems in the squad, which have gone unaddressed for too long; do that organisationally rather than with sticking plasters; continue with BK as Chair (and what they can't say, so I may be wrong about it, as I am about so many other things) until BF's Modus/AIB case is settled and he can spend more time in the limelight as the (probable) next chair and is clearer about what further investments he may or may not be able to make; maintain an open mind about new investors, but be sure they have the long term interests of club and town in mimd... and - I agree with you! - don't panic!!!

Think this may now be a record number of posts under one front-page article on VB! Clarets fans are certainly passionate if nothing else! The point I am making is that there is absolutely no way this team will get promoted if we continue to play like we did in the opening two games of the season! If Howe is now also saying this is a team in transition and that we are rebuilding, that must surely set off the alarm bells! At the start of the season,he was telling us all we just needed was 2-3 additional signings and all would be well!

Wonder who will be joining us this week, hope its not another League one player, we need players who are going to be in the starting line up.

Too true Stuart and welcome to VB by the way!

Lets close the door on the Danny Fox posts. Fox was not the best left back. he did not want to stay @ Burnley. end of it lets move on

Anyone like to write a letter to Barry Kilby/Brendan Flood and express concerns on behalf of (some) Burnley vital members in selling Foxy and for reassurance over Jay Rod staying at Burnley. The chairmans statement on Clarets player explained a lot to some posters but not to others.

Of course, Jewell was doing two things. One, getting Tractor Boys off his back for having sold Wickham. Two, trying to prise Jay Rod loose by unsettling Bfc, its players and its fans. Has it worked in eitehr way?

"The XXXXX were in chaos, but so too was the internet, which was both the fastest source of reliable news and, unchecked, a means of spreading panic." But is this quote from The Guardian talking about ths streets of English cities, or football fans at Arsenal after a rumour was started on Vitla Burnley that not only Fabregas and Nasri, but also van Persie and Walcott were going? (A plan? "Show me don't tell me" is the only way to greet any plan. So show me, my dear Hollins, if indeed you are the same Hollins who posted late last night or early this morning that now was not the time to unsettle the Board!!!)

Surprised that nobody has come up with a cunning plan. Or would that fit the laughing stock image too well.

Songs from the 60s and 70s with 'fox' in the title... 'Foxy Lady' by Jimmy Hendrix. 'Fox on the Run'...by The Sweet?

Howes about the new babes of the Championship.

Couch - I didn't unsettle the board, I think you will find they can take the credit for that all by themselves ! My plan is really simple, what you do is take £90M over five years, along with about another £14M in transfer monies incoming ,freeze out the debts repayments to current directors, hold the cash reserve ( cash is king at the moment not debt repayment) pay some loans rather than paying them all, think of alternative solutions to repaying cash back on the premiership pledge. Then take your cash and build a squad that is based around the best players you have, if you cant keep them then bring in players of equal or better quality, Moreover continue to bring in quality players that send out a message that your intent on a quick return to the Premiership. Do all this before the constraints of turnover/spend caps come into place and or your parachute monies dry up, IF the plan fails you recoup your monies through the sell off of your asserts (players) these pay off your debts and align your turnover with new cap regulations, See Couch the key to this is simple, I would be throwing the kitchen sink at loading up a team thtn can win promotion, we finished 8 th last year we were 2 or 3 players away from being a really good squad in pre season £6-£9 would have put us back in the race npt a lot given the £100 M of incoming funds, promotion and planning for life in the premiership was a must, not selling off half the team and banking the cash for a rainy day, and planning your futre around the championship, basically the board are unambitious in their approach, they had a unique window of opportunity to bounce back, but the constraints they have placed upon themselves make it virtually impossible to do this now or indeed any time soon, something that I am sure will be acknowledged by the fans the minute we start to struggle, the board would have been forgiven to have had a go and failed rather than the current alternative which appears have not have had a go.... it remains to be seen if they fail, howerever you asked me initially about my plan, ans I would have rather died trying than not to have tried at all !!!

Agree totaly Couch, we l ook at the suad now as it is, we have had a good clear out, a laxative to enable us to bring Players in who want to play for burnley. and have speed & developing. instead of cart horses who have been good players 5 years ago & no distespect are to slow to cope with the Championship. Lets stop this thered stop all the negative talk about the board & start supporting new life @ the club

Fox played about 15 minutes for Southampton last night, will have to earn his place, will be interesting to see if he becomes their first choice left back.