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Rumour Mill-Good Game, We Wanted Forsyth?

According to Sky Sports, Watford have won the race to sign Dundee midfielder, 23 year old Craig Forsyth beating both Burnley and Crystal Palace.

Forsyth is believed to have agreed personal terms at Vicarage Road and will undergo a medical at the club later this week.

He signed for Dundee in the summer of 2006 and was given a one year contract extension with an option for a further year with the club in June 2008. During his time on Dundee's books, he has also been shipped out on loan to both Montrose and Arbroath in order to gain valuable playing experience.

The 6ft tall Carnoustie-born midfielder has attracted a lot of interest both north and south of the border after impressing at Dens Park over the last few seasons but it looks like the Hornets have now got their man.

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The Journalist

Writer: turfmanphil Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday June 20 2011

Time: 9:15PM

Your Comments

Not quite sure why we would be going for a midfielder unless we had given up on McCann and Cork.
I would guess he was signing for Malky who is to be replaced by Laws which would mean the ink has not been used and I would guess is not going to be used either. Paper talk lol
they would be nuts to bring in a player at this stage without a new manager
its all gone quite over there !!!! no news fellas ?
News, he signed for Watford, Paper talk! don't you just love'em
Well if he was a target of ours it adds to the increasing anxiousness of Burnley fans,.... McCanns silence becomes more deafening by the day with him having had talks on Friday, this should have been a done deal by now the longer it goes on the more worrying it becomes, you either wanna play for the club or you don't and quite honestly its looking like he's continuing to hawk himself about. Why after three months have we not been able to convince a single player to join us ?? again you have to look at the re-enumeration on offer just what is going on ?
LET reporting that the Cork deal is falling down because burnley cant meet Chelsea's asking price ............... Although Southampton have, Cork seems reluctant for a move to the south coast .... this AGAIN points to what I have been ranting about for the last 3 months!! why cant we secure this sort of deal its about money and our "constrained" finances ....... it's unbloody believable and demonstrates in all its glory the absolute lack of ambition this club demonstrates day after day ..... Im telling you its time for Kilby and Co to go !!!
Who would take their place hollins?
Couch Potato
As I have previously posted in the forums on this site... Some of us have been trying to set what's going on in a wider picture. This picture has included: a fairly detailed anaysis in an earlier front-page VB thread of the fabled 60million and of the promotion-securing Flood investment that then had to be paid back after the greedy bankers crashed; news of the reduction in TV money in future seasons (due to austerity at the BBC) for the FL that is having an impact on contracts now; news of the decision in principle amongst Championship clubs to live within their means; news of the commitment amongst clubs in L1 and L2 to do that; and thoughts on how all of that is causing an attempt by clubs to put player salary inflation into reverse... and is causing the transfer market to be very quiet just about everywhere at the moment (as you can see on the BBCwww if you click around long enough). So agents, worried about their own declining income, are linking every player with everyone to make it look as though they're doing something, and advising players to be patient in the hope the clubs will spend more. Short of any real news, newspapers are blowing tiny stories leaked by agents into big deals, with the agents doing that in hope that it will make fans shout at clubs to get them to spend more and spend it now. But clubs are telling fans to be patient in the hope that by waiting we'll get the players we want for less money. And in this giant game of poker some fans are being patient, and some aren't, which is human nature.
Couch Potato
CP, we have a differing opinion but ones based on mutual claret respect, my point is reiterated again here. For me the board are at best awful at communicating with fans I hope that this is all it is, however for me it goes much deeper than communication failures. I won't go over old ground but this attitude of we cant afford it is driving me and others crazy "WE" have to stop making excuses and find some positive solutions. I don't buy the fact that we could not attract some real investment into the club, thus by default we have to settle with what we have in terms of an executive. I like Flood and I like Kilby and I don't for one minute doubt their business credentials or the fact that they are as bigger fans as any of us. That being said, I think they have FAILED in transitioning the club from a poor championship side to a side that could/should be able to compete in the top flight. The business model and the attitude is failing them and us at the moment, we CANNOT go into the new season with the squad we had! we all know that It was far from good enough to compete successfully last season, fact is we were never in the top 3 all season! So if we take this as a point of fact on which we all agree, then we in turn should agree that we need to re build In order to have a dam good go at getting out this league. Fortune favours the brave I don't see any bravery just a whole load of accountancy speak and you know what they say about letting accountants run a business! counting the coffers is no good to us right here right now, having 20M in the bank and a **** team will not fill the turf, nor will it encourage the best talent to flock to this part of Lancashire. We have to demonstrate leaps of faith, some of which will be uncomfortable. Perhaps one of the questions missing then is that of the trust between the manager and the board, when are they con-straining him so much? is it that we don't entity trust him with the ranch? if not then what is it ? If Jack Cork costs a million or two million do we not think he's worth it? we have had Jack on loan for 18 months, Jack Cork is worth what Chelsea want for him whether that's a 1M or 2M given Fletcher went for 7.5M is Jack Cork not worth 3M ? who knows? ..... what I do feel uncomfortable with is the fact that our delta is possibly 750K between doing this deal and we are willing to loose our man for that ..... now this gets us nearer to the point.... If Chris McCann goes and we loose Jack Cork hen who in this league are we going to get that's as good as them? and when you answer this, then how much will it cost us to replace them? all of a sudden 750k looks like the worst money we never spent ! The fact is Jack a proven talent we should stop this ******ing about and sign him on now, for me the more time you give some one to think about things the more they think of the reasons why not to do something its human nature, Jack doesn't want to move south but in the absence of us nailing this deal now, he will become more dispassionate and off he will go. If this happens then you know who I will be pointing the finger at don't you! It is exactly this type scenario that leads me to believe that change in direction and attitude is needed at the top this deal is a no brain'er and because were dithering around were failing in our attempts to put a team together for pre season. I hope and pray that I will be back on here eating my humble pie however something tells me I am not going to be ordering any custard any time soon ! Now BK and BF get our money out and sign the lad on before one of the other five clubs gets him!!!
"Fortune favours the brave " , not for General Custer it did'nt !!
Bernie Lee
A fool and his money are soon.......?
I certainly confirm Hollins' gracious and much appreciated words about mutual Claret respect. Meanwhile, there's a very encouraging story on the official club website this morning about how Eddie Howe has been leading plans to provide better facilities for all players at both the leisure centre and Gawthorpe. The particularly interesting thing was Eddie being quoted as saying something about how he has been leading the call for this change, and how he thinks it will remove cause for players' grumbles, which he seems to suggest there has been too much of. Now that is something I am very, very pleased to hear. Does this mean that Eddie and the Board are seeing eye to eye on everything? I doubt if any manager and Board see eye to eye on everything. But is there anything anyone would call a rift? Concerning the improvements in facilities, Eddie is saying he got what he wanted. I am not sure why this news wasn't announced earlier. Maybe it could have been? Maybe the 'i's weren't dotted? But I feel comfortable not knowing how much the Board is oing to spend on players till they spend it, as agents - like any good salesman such as yourself Hollins, I would guess - will always ask for more when budgets are being advertised in advance of the deal being made. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. There's always more than one way to skin a cat, and it's great that different views get expressed on here.
Couch Potato
See more excuses boys ... sitting in the comfort zone with the shroud of " you cant do that and the duvet cover pull up under your chin with words of "we cant afford that " will get us no where small town mentality. How do we compete if we don't have a point of difference its Time for leaders on and off the pitch - men of inspiration and motivation not shrinking violets!! Whilst comfy under the covers a little bed time story perhaps I remind ya a week today of pre season start, roll back EH inter, -view did he not say it was to be a busy summer and he wanted all signing in to start pre season. Come on Burnley I spend over 1k on my season tickets I want to see us competing I don't want a team that was a million miles away from it last year, you have the dough lets see something to show for the alleged 60 plus million over 3 years. a new pitch and a handful of players and a long over due dressing room and lunch areas at Gawthorpe just don't cut it for me
Couch I watched the Clark Carlisle video that he put up on player last year, filmed himself for four days, it showed the team on their travels it was an illuminating video diary I enjoyed it very much, it provided a great insite into preparation for games, I am in total agreement that the facilities at Gawthorpe needed updateing and it was absolutely clear from Clarks video that upgrades the facilities were well overdue So we are agreed on this one - money well spent. However the story behind the leisure centre leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for many, but as long as the board have finally recognised that paying hundreds of thousands of pounds to leave it empty is not a sensible plan then that has to be better news. The fact is the club cant get out the lease for the next three years they have to pay the outrageously high rent, rates .. so they have now seen than 6 months after sacking everyone they may as well put it to use hence the great idea of a gym for the players.
Hollins, thanks for sharing an alternative perspective to that offered by the gaffer concerning the leisure centre. (I also enjoyed Clarke's videoblog.) Looking at the bigger picture, I accept that the borderline between excuses and reasons can be narrow. On finances, we probably have to agree to disagree, but I don't think anyone should apologise for wanting to take steps to control the expenditure of the football industry on players. I accept the arguments that players mount, that if someone's willing to offer them money, they're certainly entitled to take it. But the sums are so vast these days, even at 'small-town' clubs, that it means there are many people nowadays who find it hard keep in check feelings of revulsion, especially when just about everyone else is living in 'austerity', and we're being told that 'we're all in it together'. So, emotions run high in more than one direction. Anyway... Who's round is it?
Couch Potato
That will be my round then ... LOL ....well articulated Couch as always, I find myself agreeing with much of what you say, further I agree we do live in austere times, has anyone told the players that though? whilst we have demand then we sit at the cross roads of should we shouldn't we! and the sad fact remains if we don't others will! Striking a balance is key, throwing money at everything is defo not the answer prudence is no bad thing, but it has to be balanced with ambition and not constrain the same !
Wot still no signings 4 days off pre season ! awwhh !
I read with interest Paul Fletcher's interview in the LET today... which is the most illuminating article I have read in the LET for some time and explains exactly why we are failing miserably to sign any one "Burnley are set to introduce the idea of pegging wages in line with turnover to around wages being 55% of turnover!" So instead of thinking in the alternative, that being we have constraints coming next season or the season after that, so lets absolutely go for it this season and try and get into the premiership whilst we can afford to have a real go with the parachute money, what have we done .... we have used the wages cap as an excuse THIS season to lower wages ... Absolute Genius!! ...... let's pay less than other clubs and see who we can attract this year!!! eh would be funny if it was so bloody stupid .... what a set of total negative num-nuts!! for Christ sake Burnley don't you get it you need to pay decent wages to attract the best ..... attract the best and you stand a better chance of promotion wonder we cant sign a single player
Leeds have signed ex Blackpool keeper Paul Rachubka, some of the message boards indicating that a further keeper at Leeds is required to fight it out for the number one shirt - grant being mentioned but given he wants away from the turf is he really going to want to go to leeds to fight it out for the No 1 shirts- given thats what hes doing here ! Casper Schmeichel also muted as possible in player at Burnley as he dosn't seem keen on an East Midlands move
Hollins - don't know why you bother with LET. I told you this was happening at least 2 weeks ago!!! The world of football is changing at quite a pace, but do try to keep up. :-) More to the point, does your theory that we are going alone on this strategy stand up under scrutiny? I suspect not, and offer as evidence from BBCwww that, thus far, Derby have signed 6 (yawn, still useless, my Ram brother-in law tells me) Ipswich and Bham 3 each (Ipswich losing Wickham, Bham losing loads), Barnsley and Millwall 2 each, and 6 other clubs just one each. Not sure who many (if any) of the players in these deals actually are, but the earth ain't moving, Holllins (except possibly where Big Sam is lumbering around East London, trying to work out which stadium he's supposed to be playing in and how many of his squad know how to hoof the ball upfield and/or take part in Olympic wrestling. My WHU correspondents seem mostly suicidal.) So, if I remember correctly that there are 24 teams in the division, and that having signed no-one thus far gets a Vital Burnley 'GENIUS LAUGHING STOCK ' award, 12 teams who have thus far signed nobody share the honour as of today. But Cardiff surely are at the front of the pack of jokers, given that 8 players who were on the Turf for the last game have either been sold or their loans have expired. Come on Holins, you've got to laugh. :-) Over to you.
Couch Potato
ok I'm laughing out loud bud ...... BUT please can you make up a fantastic story if only to give me a break from reading that the bloody away kit was launched on Thursday if I see that headline again I'm gonna blow ..... is there any new, anything at all coming from the turf if if not can you not just make something up! that's what journos do isnt it ? even Turfmans lost the will to live ... this bloody story's been up a week lol .... Hows the dog and how the injury ?
Turfman is away during midweeks at the moment. I expect he'll be posting some new stories later tonight or tomorrow. We're working on how to keep a string of front-page articles coming up while he's away. I'll not bore you with the details. But I agree it's boring with nothing new coming up in the Claret world, beyond wondering whether the away strip is yellow or mustard, and whether the badge is bigger or smaller this year. I only have a share in the dog. The other dog at his main home is in heat. So the one I look after for half the time is not happy, as we're not going to let a Jack/English Terrier breed with a BlackLab/Dalmatian! At least, we're going to try not to let it happen... Better news on my foot: it has been pain free for 12 days now, after making me hobble for 6 months. Not that I get up to much these days. Are you still able to kick a football without screaming in pain? Don't forget to visit the forums on this site. There's more going on there than on this home page.
Couch Potato
Yep seen the forums will jump onto them soon ... Eddie Howe seems positive in the McCann signing according to the official site today, he's a fairly cautious sort of guy so I think this boards well he's not as upbeat about JC or the other signings, in fairness I know they will be working hard behind the scenes he certainly isn't complaining about budgets so that's fairly positive I guess, in relation to kicking a ball about without any pain ..... yep no pain my side but probably couldn't sore in a ...... well lets say a less salubrious place
The big news here is realy the time Hollins and Couch have spent on "No News"??
we've had to bud ... cos there been no news !!! unless you have some for us bud..... anyone ... owt ? any new at all from the club
No. BUT here's a question. Is no news - good news - in this case?
Some of the stuff written pertaining to a perceived lack of action on the transfer front is really ridiculous, fans should learn to take some time off themselves in the close season instead of bad mouthing our Board at every available non-story. The "lack of ambition" tag-line is tiring, and bull***** IMO. I wonder how many will eat humble pie if we do manage to retain McCann and Cork (in the case of the latter, it really isn't worth all the worry, he is far from an indispensable player).
Cuban your entitled to your opinion as we all are, the lack of ambition line is absolutely pertinent to these conversations not sure why you would think its tiring given its more of a recent body of opinion! I completely disagree with you about the board, I think its agreed by most that they are true claret fans and successful in their own rights, its not necessarily about sacking the board its about the strategy and current business plan they have embarked upon, it quite frankly is perceived by some including me as being far too negative. further, its also about how successful have been since inheriting 60m quid and are we using this money in the right way, some think they are, others like me think not. I don't think we are seeing benefits in the team given we are 60M richer, Personally I think its healthy for the board and management teams in any company to be challenged, after all that's what keeps them from becoming complacent. Perhaps given our new found wealth you could explain why we haven't attached a single player, sold a single player or retained a single player eight weeks into the process of closed season?
Could someone just tell me where the 60 million is? Did we get it as a one off payment? How much of the 60 million is guess work on projected targets and how much is reality?
Hollins has a good point. There must be cash somewhere. Why no action? the amount could be anyones guess - but it must be substantial. In some ways this is the most important part of the season. We are putting together our challenge. We've had a break of sorts. Now we should be preparing a squad for the pre season stuff.
There was a detailed article in wtbm about the 60 million (or whatever it actually is, once we've finished getting it), about how and when it comes in, and what has used up a lot of it. There's also been detailed suggestions in a separate thread (about Chris McCann, I think) about where a lot of it has gone. I put down what I could think of. Bernie Lee added a lot more. Maybe someone could pull all of that together and make a main article out of it? I am fine about all leaders being robustly challenged, and accept that being a fan is about passion, sometimes to the exclusion of reason, sometimes with reason and passion combined. But if we're going to talk money, I think it would help if we could all focus on a bit more detail of what money is available, and what isn't: over the last 2 years, and in the next three, the period for which the Board are now negotiating contracts. I suspect that a lot of the inevitable disappointment at relegation and over a season back in the Cship that never quite took off is still being stoked up by the national media hype about the prize money for winning at Wembley. It's as though once that fire is lit, in pretty simplistic terms suitable for Sunday paper back pages, no amount of accounting or explaining can quite extinguish the expectation of a right to more being done by spending more, without reasoned regard to whether the money's there or isn't. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea that emotion trumps accounting. But... Andy Ho asked a philosophical question. Here's another one. Would we as a group of fans with all our differences have been collectively happier if we had not got promotion and had our expectations raised? The evidence is almost beginning to suggest that we would. Which at first sight seems an odd phenomenon to say the least. But then we see all around us these days that greed trumps happiness.
Couch Potato
A fool and his money? Leeds United (finished above Burnley), Southampton (promoted and could sign Cork), Portsmouth (money bags again). Hull City (finished 3 points behind Burnley). Sniff the coffee and consider Plan B for the first time in 50 years and before the salary caps to turnover bites in 2013
Most of the money appears to have been used to pay off Directors Loans and had they not been so eager to get the money back and instead used it to pay for players, we might now still be in the Premier League and not debating how ambitious the club have been (or not)
It's now 40 months since I drank coffee, and I don't even like its smell any more. :-) The large chunk of cash used to pay back Brendan Flood's loan was not paid back to him, or at his request (unless I am missing something), but because of the actions of a bank that he did not control during the banking crisis. That certainly served to illustrate how fragile director loans can be as a way of financing a club, unless the director is both extremely wealthy and not only committed, but also committed in a binding way in the event of death, business collapse, divorce, etc. It's great that the loans got us promoted, but if they can't be sustained, it's a problem. If those directors could not sustain them, Plan B has to involve someone else. I'm still unclear whether there are any Plan B investors (given the small size of the local population and TV market compared to Leeds, Hull, Portsmouth, Southampton and indeed Plymouth). Another question is how Burnley fans would react to non-local investment. If you take the view that, had we not won promotion, players were going to have to be sold, then we have come down stronger than that scenario. But, the evidence continues to mount that we have also come down unhappier. ;-(
Couch Potato
We always find excuses for a club determined by its actions to remain in midtable mediocrity! Lip service about ambition, lip service about going down stronger, lip service about signing McCann and Cork and the reality? 8th in the league last season and by common consent not good enough, struggling to buy high qualty players and retain the ones we need and using parachute money that appears to have gone anywhere except into buying players that would have kept us up and got us back up. Whatever you do drink CP,sniff it!! lol ;-) I don't think it be honey though (Mead)
Lovely sunny day now here, tmp. Bit blustery up that way? ;-)
Couch Potato
Lovely in Cambridgeshire, 30 C probably by now! Even the pond is too hot for the fish

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