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Should we complain about Fulham?

Hull City stole a march on both West Ham and Burnley on Saturday in their battle to avoid relegation after beating a weakened Fulham side 2-0 at the KC Stadium. West Ham lost 1-0 at home to Stoke City and of course we all know what happened to the Clarets on Sunday.

Fulham rested key players including captain, Danny Murphy and the influential,Damien Duff. Bobby Zamora was also absent although in this case it was announced he had stomach cramps and couldn't play. Guess you have to take them at their word!

Fulham gaffer, Roy Hodgson also confirmed on Match of the Day that the players were rested because the club had one eye on the Europa League Quarter Final match against Wolfsburg on Thursday night plus had a busy schedule coming up. Aw bless, try playing 61 games in a season like we did in 2008-9 with one of the smallest squad sizes in the Championship!

This may not be on the scale of Wolves fielding a virtual reserve team at Old Trafford but should not the same principle apply? Mick McCarthy picked up a suspended £25,000 fine for his actions hardly a punishment to fit the crime but could Fulham expect the same or worse?

West Ham think they might have grounds to complain.

Vital West Ham state that the internet is rife suggesting the Hammers could be looking to lodge a complaint relating to their West London neighbours, Fulham.

They also quote a West Ham source as follows:

'We are checking the rules.'

'Roy Hodgson said on Match of the Day he rested players as they had a lot of games coming up starting with Wolfsburg this week. Hull got very lucky with Fulham fielding a very weak side as they play Wolfsburg on Thursday.'

'Let`s hope they beat Wolfsburg and stay in the competition and do the same for us when we play them!'

This sort of thing,fielding weakened sides is clearly not within the spirit of the game and also not within the rules as Mick McCarthy found out to his cost.

The problem is though, the punishment handed out is minimal and it seems pointless to complain if there is no chance that the game would be declared null and void and have to be replayed. Fining the club,suspended or otherwise will hardly improve our promotion chances.

However if West Ham do complain, should we not back them up? This sort of behaviour surely has to be stamped out. Clubs are just making a mockery out of the situation. The Premier League Board on fining McCarthy also issued the following statement:

'In coming to this decision the board also wants to put clubs on notice that any future rule breach of this nature would be subject to a disciplinary commission that would have available a full range of sanctions.'

Perhaps it's time to once more test how much guts the PL Board actually have and see whether they would be prepared to come down stronger than they have in the recent past.

I suppose our fate is in our own hands and if we cant beat Pompey, Wolves and Blackburn at home we have little grounds to complain but even so this sort of thing still stinks in my opinion and is yet another case of 'Premier League? You are Having a Laff!'

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The Journalist

Writer: turfmanphil Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday March 30 2010

Time: 1:51PM

Your Comments

Interesting one but not one likely to reap any rewards for the Clarets more's the pity
Premier League WILL fine Hodgson BUT there surely can't be a points reduction. West Ham a fine one to argue... didn't they drop Parker, Cole etc against Man Utd so they could beat Wolves?
Whats happened to the ruling about having to field your strongest team available. Stomach cramps my @r$e.!!!
Yeah thats what I am saying DrW unless they are prepared to come down stronger on these clubs, they will just keep trying to get away with it
I said on a previous thread that this makes a mockery of the premier league. With such influential players out ( and who played against us) they mol gifted Hull 3 points. These 3 points could be even more contentious come May. Stomach cramps and Premier league my @r$e .
Certainly think that PL have to (a) ask Hodgson to explain his actions, especially because of his statement about them (b) investigate and make a statement of their own confirming whether or not in their view Fulhma have broken the rules. About Wolves they said they definitely had broken the rules, and in ways which they could differentiate from other instances. If they say Fulham have also broken the rules, and Hull then edge past Fulham, WHU might well feel like suing Fulham in civil court. After all, it was WHU who got sued by the Blades, and their new owners are not exactly shrinking violets. As for Bfc suing Wolves... sadly it looks like they will remain too far ahead of us now for us to have a case.
Couch Potato
I can asure you that many Fulham supporters were not terribly happy with the squad selection vs. Hull, but the idea that we could be punished for resting A FEW players is absurd! We have a paper-thin squad and were fighting on three fronts for most of the season. Hodgson has done an unbelievable job with the squad we have (an injury riddled squad, I'll add). I sympathize with your situation and I know we did you no favors vs. Hull, but gimme a break!
Agree with Teddy, you cant base your hopes of survival on other teams, Burnley fc needs to be good enough to get those points to stay up, same applies to west ham. Fulham or any other team have the right to do as they choose, sometimes it works for you, other times against you, it's football.
The point is Lily that teams DO NOT have the right to choose, the rules are simple, you play your strongest team.
As even Avram Grant has said recently 'football is about more than just football'. Specifically it is about entering into a contract with other clubs in your competition to play by a shared set of rules that you sign up to at the start of the season. You want to 'do as you choose'? Go play friendlies!
Couch Potato
Bit of a pointleess post really as BFC wont be concerned with the Premier league much longer
As much as I hate to admit it, this wouldn't be an issue if we were good enough to beat the likes of portsmouth, wolves, stoke and blackburn at home or for that matter if we had picked up even 1 away win this season.
the fact is even if thee is a point eduction we cant win our matches we shouldn't have to ely on other teams
Think it would be difficult to prove what was a ' strongest ' team and all a manager would say is that he picked a team he thought could win the game and that some players were ' injured'. Fergie, Ancelotti and Whinger hav big squads so don't always pick their so-called strongest team yet they usually win so what we're talking about here is the result and not the team selected. Agree we should concentrate on fighting our own battles first because when we win it doesn't matter what happens elsewhere most of the time. The integrity of the competition is important but unless we want lawyers, doctors and FA suits all over the shop every time a team sheet is pinned up not sure much will happen about this.
Ewoodrover Worry about your own team that now has a reputation as highlighted on talk sport as being a bunch of diving cheats.
Grimsby Claret
A manager needs to get his team/squad/club through a whole season in the most succesful way possible. If he chooses to rest his players to save them for the next game - that is his choice. He will still send out his players to win the game. The PL have got themselves into a whole here by fining Wolves. On the last day of last season Utd played a weakened side against Hull but were not punished in anyway. Why? Because they won? Thats not right. Wolves rested their players and probably got a similar result to the 'first team'.
That's a good argument, CD. (Not that I'm convinced! :)=)
Couch Potato
I think though that argument falls down because the players wouldn't have been 'rested' had they been playing Wolfsburg before they played Hull! So in conclusion they didn't need a rest?
Gee guys we are getting desperate now. How about blaming our own squad for their inept performances and lack of heart recently. We can only control our own destiny not be worried about those around us.
Yep I cannot see us benefiting from this nor would I want too, if we can't stay up on our own merit then so be it.
Yeah, but just suppose we somehow finally put some results together but still end up in 18th position say 1 or 2 points behind Hull ??
Fair point WC but to be honest I am fed up with all this surmising and if and buts, stuff the Premier league and what it stands for so long and thanks for the fish... I would love it (kevin keegan style) if we go down then went back up then went back down again, milk them for all we can, we are a lot better off than we were, Financially the Premiership is heaven but would I want to see us fighting to stay up or fighting to get up? I think the latter for me, the Premier league has been a joke to me this season.
How much of a joke would it be though if we stayed up? Surely despite all its faults,it is better to play in the most prestigious league in football,put Burnley on the footy map and reap the financial benefits? I would love to become the next Fulham and have the power to ***** up everybody's survival chances without even so much as a by your leave! ;-) WC makes an excellent point
There is only one group wrong. It is without doubt our board of directors, had they invested 60 Million in the squad during the summer we would have had 7 decent players and a squad that could have survived. It is no use blaming Coyle or the players in the squad who are not good enough for the Prem league it is not their fault. I have read everything on this board and the truth is the majority verdict is that the board did not invest and cull the players who got us into a league above our weight. The board should be replaced immediately because we wouldn't be clutching at bloody straws if we had spent 60 million and paid the wages to go with that which would have been nearly an extra half Million a week or 26 Million a year. I see no problems in staying in the Prem League with 86 Million pounds more spent it would have been a risk well worth taking as I wouldn't then get out of bed the wrong side and bump into the bloody cabinet, bang my head trip over the wire on the floor and open the computer up.....morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No VR £60 million is the amount (well OK nearer £40m)we would have earned/annum had we stayed up, £10m is the amount we wanted them to invest! For the sake of £10m (2-3 players as assets), we might have enjoyed those millions coming in next year(and might still do if a miracle happens). Instead of which of course we now get just £16 m parachute payments,have a depleted team with all the best players leaving (and not much worth) and have to balance the books with low gate revenues again! But then its all going to be a breeze in the Championship going to Oakwell and the Keepmoat again! Yuk!!
To me the trouble is that the Prem IS all about money, clubs owned by non football people wanting to line their pockets directly or indirectly, the top clubs getting a bigger and bigger share of the pot. All this makes it more difficult for the lesser clubs to compete and so they become more desperate for money. I never did like the seperation of the old football league and my fears have been realised. Perhaps this uninhibited greed is just part of the modern world but true SPORT is the big loser.
Rubbish tmp 10 million would not buy you a Goalkeeper, 2 defenders, 2 midfielders and a forward that are good enough to give the quality to a squad that is required to give us a sporting chance of staying up. You wanted 10 million but that doesnt even buy Bent, Nugents misses, Fletchers misses you get what you pay, Nugent they wanted what 5 Million? We have Grezza, Wade and Bikey as midfielders protecting the defence...even Vidic and Ferdinand would find they are busier than normal with that in front of them. 2 players would not save would just be a long shot gamble of 10 Million, if you are going to gamble at least do it with a pair of 60 Million has no bearing on what we got for going up it is purely the cost of strengthening the squad to realistically give us a chance.....I list again players not good enough for the Prem League week in week out.....Jenson, Kalvenes, Carlisle, Caldwell, Eckersley, Duff (sorry but its true), Grezza, Wade, Joey, Thomo, JayRod, Easton, Robbie (sorry based on 90 minutes) thats 13 players off the top of my head, Edgar didn't get a mention or bringing in two players to this squad is like pee ing in the wind imo a long shot gamble that you win because hinsight will always win over reality......NURSE DAMN YOU WOMAN
How many of the players I have listed does anyone think will be playing Prem League football next season having been bought in the summer? If the answer is none...or one then I rest my
Jesus I missed Bikey....................forget to check the parallel universe players!
One player for Wolves has kept them up-Doyle £6.5 million in the summer,now worth at least £10 m! I don't share your pessimism about the rest of the team. had we had two midfielders of better quality in the team from the day we kicked off, we could well have been safe by Christmas having picked up some points on the road! £10 million is not *****ing in the wind, *****ing in the wind is not going into debt
I dislike the Premiership for the same reasons as cornwall, money rules and the more you've got, the better team and depth of squad you've got. At one end of the spectrum, there are the teams who year in, year out enter the Champions league and rake in even more, thereby continuing the spiral. For the rest of us, the best we can hope for is to do well enough to survive so that we can continue to benefit from the tv cash , and even though I hate this rat race I’d still like to stay here so that we too can use the dinero to strengthen and improve the squad. But at the same time, like 8clarets8 I’ve also had a guts full of all the palaver and my overriding feeling is that it’s a crock of s**t .Mixed emotions or what ? Having said that, we’ve learnt a lot about what it takes to survive in the premiership this season, and that’s a hell of a positive lesson to learn . I’m still dreaming and hoping against hope ,but if we do go down then I see no reason at all why we can’t be the Newcastle of next season and come back a lot stronger and wiser. Like tmp, I’m not as pessimistic as VR about the squad, there are a shedful of what some might describe as hard working ‘championship quality’ players playing in premiership sides held together by a few notable individuals. And we’ve got a lot of quality young players waiting in the wings who will eventually break into the team . Whatever the outcome, we’ve got some cracking memories of this season before it all went wrong. All my mates were certainly impressed with our style of play, and I’ll always remember Townsend talking on talksport, when he said that ”Burnley have brought a burst of fresh air into the premiership”. We certainly did that.
So Doyle would have helped the defence that is shipping in a record number of goals....No Phil he wouldn't have on his own. Which of the above players I posted do you class as Prem Regulars for a mid table team?....Name your favourites.
This is getting way off the article topic but to answer VR. I am making the point that spending £6.5 million on a player ensured a teams survival. That money as far as the Clarets are concerned could have been spent on a midfielder or a defender if that was our area of weakness. As for the Prem players, we will see if we go down who takes Mears, Fletcher, Eagles and maybe others like McCann. Nugent will be picked up by a Prem club. Bikey will no doubt get itchy feet as well and I would think one of the lesser clubs in the Prem maybe a promoted one could be tempted especially if they play him in his proper role in defence! Coyle I am sure will have his eyes on a few, even Jensen if the rumours are true!
Interesting post WC, I am not a pessimist at all, I am trying to be realistic as just buying Doyle and thinking that would save our defence is unrealistic imo. Midfield have to work with the defence and the attack which is why I will aslo say that buying Kilgallon would not have been the answer either. The question is what would it have taken to guarantee our survival in £££££s and I think close to 60 Million for 6 players. We have had on loan a 5 Million pound striker all season and that hasn't saved us either????
This is the mistake you are making VC, I am not talking abouit ensuring our survival, I am talking about improving our chances with the limited resources available. It's not rocket science really, spending £10 million on a couple of midfielders, players that could be sold at a profit if we still didn't survive. Better that than staying debt free and giving ourselves virtually no chance whatsoever
Coming back to the main article, if we do end up in 18th with 1 or 2 points behind Hull, then the difference between premiership money and the parachute payment could have bought a couple of midfielders and a striker or defender. Hodgson's desire to succeed in Europe I can understand , but the financial implications for other clubs purely as a by product of his team selection, could be significant if not catastrophic. I don't buy the argument of 'can select anyone in the squad'. Why does he play Murphy, Duff and Zamora in every other match , barring injury, if that's the case? Answer : Because he knows they're crucial to the his team's success. And without them , they lost to Hull after tuning Benfica 4-1.
tnp who is VC? Improving our chances with 10 million is gambling ask can only have either Doyle plus Fletcher for 10 Million or Nugent plus another Bikey lol Gambling with 10 Million or being brave with 60 million.....go down having spent 10 Million and good old Mr Hindsight will kick in...should have spent 20 Million and on and ariston....whatever happens even if we stay up it will not please some folk as we have Laws....hindsight I tell you is the most wonderful.....sack the board........useless the lot of them..players, pies, board, ticket office staff...all Conference standard.....give us our money back.....or maybe if we got it free this season...dont bother....I am off to support Nelson Stanley lol....tvfimfc
I think you will find a few of us predicted the 'hindsight' and were proved right but anyway at least I won't have to spend ages pleading with the bloody Foundation to send me a Barnsley ticket!
Very good points again WC. I do think the PL Board need to clarify the situation a bit more, there seems to be far too much of a grey area for clubs to work around! It strikes me this situation is a little like banning smoking in pubs, the only way to stop it was to have an outright ban,no tinkering at the edges with smoking rooms and the like! The PLB need to issue a set of groundrules as to what and what is not acceptable,if they have the bollox that is but at the end of the day 'playing a full strength team' should mean just that
Given that some fans seem to think that they have the power to get rid of Laws by iaring thier emotions, don't we have to accept that those same fans losing faith in him/Board/squad earlier may have already deprived of us some critical points? If so, having predicted our apparent demise cannot be said to have been wise!
Couch Potato
If the manager is so weak he is affected by message boards then we really are in trouble although I suspect he wouldn't read them anyway. The only way it could affect performance on the pitch would be active booing of manager and players at the games and that came close with the Eagles substitution. I abhor the latter as you know and I fear something of that ilk might happen before the end of the season if this miserable form and lack of passion continues. If though you are saying we should all pull together and pretend everything is rosy without being critical then I might has well close the site now or change it' s name to the Official Positive Spin site
Agree with that. We shouldn't kid ourselves that what is said on here makes a happ'orth of difference to the team but the whole point of forums is that we can all air our views. Easy to be positive when the team is winning but inevitably we will be more critical and disparate in opinion when things aren't going so well.
I think if you take a look at some of my player scores for last year I was apparently being harsh on them. I think my hindsight and foresight were working perfectly well and I was giving a true score. I also think it is harsh to say lack of passion....I have seen Pato and Duff giving everything, whilst I may not think he is much cop at the moment Grezza has been trying. Laws is asking players to get behind the ball which is causing us to look the exact opposite of Coyles side that was conceding shed loads. Individual player there is a topic for a thread....are the fault of A. The Player? B The Manager for picking them? C The Board for being responsible for A and B ? lol answers on a fag packet to Planet Zog
RT - I do agree with your comments to an extent. But, If I understand CP correctly, I also think he has a good point. A negative attitude on boards may well have had an impact on the enthusiasm ( or whatever word I should probably be using) of us fans when going to the Turf on Saturday. It is an obvious statement but the Turf is nowhere near as vocal now as it was early season. The activity on the pitch has obviously been a major reason, but our generally downbeat attitude since Laws arrival probably hasnt helped. Chicken and Egg?
I doubt it Dale, we might think Clarets fans use messageboards but I suspect its a fraction of the 19000 that go on the Turf on match day. The subdued nature of the fans is down to one thing I suspect poor results & dire performances. Owen Coyle leaving has also left everybody bitter, even my mum who is 87 and doesn't go to games!
Good responses to an honest question.
Couch Potato
Sorry tmp but you keep banging on about Doyle at Wolves and they could easily get 10 million for him, what do you base this on? certainly not on goals scored? how much would Fletcher bring then 11 goals this season, we have two players on the same goals scored has him. who is going to pay that kind of money for a player who can't score goals? maybe Villa to replace Heskey!
Going off what the Wolves fans were saying, they will certainly get more than what they paid for him even if its not £10m. Had Wolves gone down, one of the promoted clubs coming up no doubt would have bought Doyle. If the Clarets ever buy a player worth more than £5 million, I will really begin to believe we mean business. £16 miillion parachute payments plus probable sales of at least Eagles&Mears,so let's see!
Looks like West Ham are going to lodge a complaint. The interesting point here is that Fulham are currently suing the Hammers for half a million 'cos of the Tevez affair, but it's suggested that the Hammers might be suing Fulham for £50 million next season if they go down! Food for thought should the worst happen to us ! It's a dog eat dog game , this premiership.
If West Ham do proceed, do you think we should support them or just get on with it?
I say get on with it at the moment, and see where we end up. If we don't get results , it's our problem and that's that . On the other hand, if we do improve and get results but still end up as I suggested above , say 1 or 2 points behind Hull at the end , well that's a different ball game. I think West Ham may be jumping the gun here , but that could be due to other reasons, such as trying to negate Fulham's claim against them. If they're cutting their cleaners' wages, then they sure as hell will want to get rid of a £500,000 claim.
Having said that, I still think that that the PL need to clarify this situation once and for all as you mentioned in a post above. If a team regularly rotate say 6 or 7 players then they could argue it's the norm for them. On the other hand, if they only rotate due to injury and suspension, and drop key players for a certain match for other reasons entirely, as both Wolves and Fulham clearly did, then they're not playing fairly by not playing their strongest team. We may have lost to Wolves anyway, but they were definitely rested and arguably sharper as a result, and does anyone think that Hull would have beaten Fulham 2-0 if Murphy, Duff and Zamora were playing?
You cant be certain but the odds must be stacked against the weakened sides. I agree basically that something needs to be done by way of clarification as said before but I am not sure the PL Board really have the motivation and guess they will probably continue to look at each case on its merits until more and more clubs start to complain. That's why in a way maybe Burnley should support West Ham whether we are up or down or they might use that against them

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